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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Yeah it could be. I think this is basically how pesticides/organophosphates contribute to these fatigue syndromes. They're acetylcholinesterace inhibitors. Acetylcholinesterace is an enzyme that unbinds ACTH and stop muscle contraction. So when you inhibit that it prolongs and intensifies contractions.My muscle hardness feels as though it involves excessive and continuous contraction of the muscle fibres. My suspicion is that this is due either to excessive release (or impaired reuptake) of acetylcholine or to electrolyte imbalance.
meandthecat said: ↑
mine is a world of pain, like many PWME I have felt this way for so long I can't remember what it was like before. I have got old with this disease, old people traditionally feel more aches and pains. I have got used to pain and so work through it, not that it seems to get any less. Occasionally I find myself in a space where there is no pain and its absence shocks me. The pain is not as bad as it used to be when I would bang my head on the wall for the relief of more acute sensation but I think it has changed me, a loss of innocence perhaps. I hurt, therefore I am
Really...? That sounds like... autism. Man I can't imagine pain that bad though. I had it fairly bad sometimes, mostly localized around injuries. Only widespread for a week or so, and it doesn't sound like it was as bad as what I hear a lot of.
How on earth does what meandthecat said 'sound like autism'? You obviously know nothing about autism or you wouldn't make such a statement.
Yeah it could be. I think this is basically how pesticides/organophosphates contribute to these fatigue syndromes. They're acetylcholinesterace inhibitors. Acetylcholinesterace is an enzyme that unbinds ACTH and stop muscle contraction. So when you inhibit that it prolongs and intensifies contractions.
Those are some sweet sources. I've been wondering what the relation is between these "flu-like illnesses" and CFS is. My thought was that some viruses may actually be attacking muscle, causing scar tissue buildup and shortening.Many studies on enterovirus infections in ME/CFS patients looked at muscle tissue biopsies, and found enterovirus present in the muscle tissues. The muscles are not the only tissues or organs that enterovirus likes to infect, but it makes me wonder whether the muscle pain might be caused by this enterovirus infection of the muscles.
Yeah headbanging. Seems fairly common in autism.I was puzzled at first too, then I wondered if @Vic meant the head-banging.
Ah yeah thanks for that. Hadn't committed those to secure memory.A couple of small corrections to avoid confusion - the spelling is acetylcholinesterase, sometimes shortened to AChE. It's an enzyme, as can be deduced from the '-ase' ending. Acetylcholine's abbreviation is ACh. ACTH is adrenocorticotropic hormone, and is the step between CRH and cortisol. Different system.
I still have muscle pain and issues. It is different, though, more like burning or aching all over from exertion, or achy as if I had had the flu. Most days, pain level stays between 2-5
Of course it is myalgia. My response was concerning the poll, the timing, and the relative severity.You don't feel that this is a description of myalgia?
Of course it is myalgia. My response was concerning the poll, the timing, and the relative severity.
Of course it is myalgia. My response was concerning the poll, the timing, and the relative severity.
Compared to about eight years of constant Mac truck fibro pain, it is mild now. Not the same.
I point it out because no one can explain the reasons why this happened this way.
Actually, I overcame what I now consider to be PEM by using exercise only - this was years ago before I knew anything about CFS besides having heard the name (about Cher). I would exercise very short and hard with maybe 1/2 or less the weight I was used to, then spend 2 days or more in bed with the flu like symptoms and fog. I thought of it as paying the price. Then I'd repeat when I felt able to do so. Now that you mention it, I don't recall any extraordinary muscle soreness from then. What resulted for me was systemic.@Sherlock in the link that you provided me, you wrote that you no longer get PEM by taking anti-nflammatories. Could you tell me what other PEM symptoms you had?
I had always thought that my start was from an ordinary virus, but because of enormous stress the virus had somehow gotten in really deep, so to speak. I didn't know what that meant mechanistically, but this idea sure seems to fit.found enterovirus present in the muscle tissues. The muscles are not the only tissues or organs that enterovirus likes to infect, but it makes me wonder whether the muscle pain might be caused by this enterovirus infection of the muscles.
I also find that muscle problems quickly come and go, so that tends against longer duration causes like fibrosis.It only happens during flares. It does not last. When the inmflammation is over it goes back to former size. The strange thing is that the core of the imflamation is higher up ( hip/pelvic area).
It does not happen in my arms anymore. Something must have changed for the better there.