Poll on myalgia (muscle pain)

[lansbergen]

I totally agree with that, how does that cause muscle pain of the ribcage?

Nervus vagus breathing?

 

[Undisclosed]

I think the other poster was probably refering to just the head banging part.. which is in fact common in autism (of cause it isnt there done to distract from pain).

@taniaaust1 Speaking anecdotally only, I have worked with tons of autistic children/adults as well as people that are intellectually delayed (Down Syndrome and other various genetic disorders that are accompanied by intellectual delays, behaviour issues etc) and I have found that it isn't just autistic people that head bang, it is seen in other disorders and I have run across very few that do head bang. Of course, maybe my experience isn't representative of what happens in the real world but I found the more severely affected people with intellectual delays, the more prevalent head banging and other similar behaviours are. I just think it's a bit much to diagnose somebody with autism from merely reading a post about them on the internet and honing in on one behavior they mentioned. My daughter had a lengthy work-up re: autisitic like behaviours and no doctor was prepared to make a diagnosis within a minute of meeting her.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

Nervus vagus breathing?

I think its just the constant tensing of muscles that happens when speaking loudly and laughing, and because its highly concentrated into a couple of hours instead of sporadic throughout the day.

 

[MeSci]

I think its just the constant tensing of muscles that happens when speaking loudly and laughing, and because its highly concentrated into a couple of hours instead of sporadic throughout the day.

Also, socialising requires a lot of mental energy, not just keeping track and keeping up with what's happening but also the effort of screening out all the irrelevant stimuli. It seems that muscle exertion can lead to brain fog, and I think that mental exertion can also lead to the physical symptoms of PEM, which for me tend to include muscle tension and myalgia.

 

[lansbergen]

I think its just the constant tensing of muscles that happens when speaking loudly and laughing, and because its highly concentrated into a couple of hours instead of sporadic throughout the day.

Yes but what do you for that? The diafragma and the tenth cranial nerve (nervus vagus).?

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

Yes but what do you for that? The diafragma and the tenth cranial nerve (nervus vagus).?

I have no idea if you're talking about abdominal breathing or something else entirely.

 

[Mij]

Also, socialising requires a lot of mental energy, not just keeping track and keeping up with what's happening but also the effort of screening out all the irrelevant stimuli. It seems that muscle exertion can lead to brain fog, and I think that mental exertion can also lead to the physical symptoms of PEM, which for me tend to include muscle tension and myalgia.

I find it also affects my equilibrium! I walk or even stagger as though I'm drunk after a long socializing binge.

 

[lansbergen]

I have no idea if you're talking about abdominal breathing or something else entirely.

intercostal muscles and diafragma are the breathing muscles.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

intercostal muscles and diafragma are the breathing muscles.

I'm aware of that. I don't undestand what point you're trying to make. I'm too brain fogged to be guessing. I'm sure it will make sense tomorrow when i can think again :thumbdown:

 

[taniaaust1]

@taniaaust1 Speaking anecdotally only, I have worked with tons of autistic children/adults as well as people that are intellectually delayed (Down Syndrome and other various genetic disorders that are accompanied by intellectual delays, behaviour issues etc) and I have found that it isn't just autistic people that head bang, it is seen in other disorders and I have run across very few that do head bang. Of course, maybe my experience isn't representative of what happens in the real world but I found the more severely affected people with intellectual delays, the more prevalent head banging and other similar behaviours are. I just think it's a bit much to diagnose somebody with autism from merely reading a post about them on the internet and honing in on one behavior they mentioned. My daughter had a lengthy work-up re: autisitic like behaviours and no doctor was prepared to make a diagnosis within a minute of meeting her.

We took the others posters post in a completely different way. I didnt take his post at all as a post trying to diagnose another with autism like you have. I think he was just comparing a similarity and that was it. (It reminds me how I often make what I see as a statement and another will take my statement and twist it in a way it wasnt at all meant or even what was going throu my head, just cause the way the other has percieved it).

I agree with what you said in your post and its also seen in other developmental illnesses too.. (but the poster didnt say it wasnt).

**whats the bet the poster who made that post has Aspergers and hence has just been taken in wrong manner for the post as people without this often do and put more onto things we say which werent even there**

**looking at the world throu different eyes** I dont even know how to explain to non Apsergers person how Ive percieved the post. (feeling sorry for the other as I think he/she was misunderstood).
........
If someone is talking about tiredness and another then comments people with cancer get tiredness too.. this isnt necessarily implying that the first person speaking has cancer thou some may mistake the persons post and that they were implying that. All it is is an observations that two different things may be alike.. An exclaimation of the world around us one could say. I think that is what may of happened here. (finally found a way to explain how I took the post )

(its the kind of thing which gets me into trouble a lot with people in my real life..simple statements others put out of context.. fortunately it dont happen a lot to me on the forums and just in real life).

 

[lansbergen]

@@taniaaust1 It was not just this one post.

 

[Sherlock]

Muscle cells have more than one nuclei, and there are spare nuclei (satellite cells) waiting just outside each muscle cell for use when needed.

This is from 2 days ago, about resveratrol and satellite cells:

Why too much red wine is bad for you... and it's not just the alcohol: Study revives row over 'elixir of youth' chemical claiming it could harm muscle in higher doses
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2968938/Too-red-wine-harms-muscle.html

Scientists looked at how the chemical [resveratrol] interacted with 'satellite cells', which play a role in repairing damaged muscle as part of the body's natural regeneration.

The team discovered the chemical, which is found in red wine, chocolate and health supplements, had a different effect depending on the concentration they used.

Laboratory tests showed that small doses supported cells in the repair process but higher doses had the opposite effect.

The findings, led by Dr Hans Degens of Manchester Metropolitan University, could strike a blow to those who tout resveratrol as fighting heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's.

...

'The results showed that the effects are dependent on the dose and it is unclear from the equivocal results if drinking wine or eating chocolate would have anti-ageing properties and repair muscle or the opposite.'

 

[Sherlock]

What if sat cells are not working correctly in CFS? Or if they become less active from inactivity? Here is how they would normally work:

Regulation of Satellite Cell Function in Sarcopenia 2014
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170136/

 

[MeSci]

This is from 2 days ago, about resveratrol and satellite cells:

Why too much red wine is bad for you... and it's not just the alcohol: Study revives row over 'elixir of youth' chemical claiming it could harm muscle in higher doses
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2968938/Too-red-wine-harms-muscle.html

Unscientific article, as one might expect from the Mail.

I wonder whether this is the source paper? It used mouse cells in vitro.

 

[Scarecrow]

Anybody watched their gait between flares? When I did I noticed I did not land on my heels, roll over the footsole and push forward with my toes but rather land on the whole foot and not push with my toes.

Do you mean during flares? I'm exactly the same. There's no roll through at the ankle.

 

[Sherlock]

Unscientific article, as one might expect from the Mail.

I wonder whether this is the source paper? It used mouse cells in vitro.

I used the DM because it contains quotes from the authors, which can give insight not contained in a paper. That concept was used often in, say, theheart.org for cardiologists and is often very valuable.

I today looked for a rebuttal from the anti-aging proponents of resveratrol, but didn't find any as of yet.

The main point, I think, is to know that the idea is in play. Reduced sat cell function might contribute to physical exertion intolerance, especially in those who have become sedentary from CFS. A secondary point for PEM happens to be the primary point of the article: that supplements might be doing the opposite of what the person taking them is intending.

 

[lansbergen]

Do you mean during flares? I'm exactly the same. There's no roll through at the ankle.

No I mean between flares , During flares it was much worse, feet not lifted from the floor.

Now I am much better and do not get the severe flares anymore, during flares would be a better discription.