POLL: Crimson Crescents In Your Throat? Know Your Coxsackievirus B Titers? ME/CFS Onset After Mono?

[Biarritz13]

Page 960, Fig 88-4, does it look like a crimson crescent?

link

 

[Hip]

Page 960, Fig 88-4, does it look like a crimson crescent?

There is no crimson crescent there at all. And it is a dog!

 

[Biarritz13]

There is no crimson crescent there at all. And it is a dog!

I know it's a dog (with bartonella) but I thought the red marks were similar to crimson crescents.

Also Dr. Horowitz says red crescents have been reported in Lyme D patients co-infected with Bartonella.

Link (end of the second paragraph).

 

[Hip]

I know it's a dog (with bartonella) but I thought the red marks were similar to crimson crescents.

I am not too clear on this dog throat picture, but it does not seem to show the uvula and the palatoglossal arch (where the crimson crescents are located). I think the arch shown towards the top of the dog throat picture is the palatopharyngeal arch, which is a different arch.

 

[frederic83]

I notice that some people's crimson crescents are located exactly on the palatoglossal arch, and other people's (like yours) are located just slightly forward from the palatoglossal arch. My crimson crescent (shown in the first post of this thread) is also located slightly forward from the palatoglossal arch.

Is there a difference between the shape/location of the Cremson's crescent caused by CVB vs other virus ?

 

[Hip]

Is there a difference between the shape/location of the Cremson's crescent caused by CVB vs other virus ?

That's an interesting question. If all the people with crimson crescents who voted in this poll posted a picture of their crimson crescents, we might get some idea if CVB and EBV produce different types of crimson crescents.

It may be, though, that the crimson crescents are not directly caused by the virus, but are due to some sort of inflammation.

Dr Chia once told me (in an email communication) that when he tissue biopsied and tested for enterovirus VP1 protein the red areas of the crimson crescents in the throat one of his ME/CFS patients, the results came back negative:

Dr Chia said to me: "One patient who had 5 biopsies of the throat because of persistent sore throat tested positive for enterovirus protein in the posterior tongue tonsils but negative in all the other ares of the throat including the red areas."

 

[frederic83]

Maybe it is a consequence of a throat viral infection. We know that some enterovirus and herpes virus can infect and replicate in the throat, and that these virus are linked to CFS.

The location could be a clue to distinct the type of virus. Or maybe the location is just a genetic stuff triggered by the infection. Too bad we don't have more pictures.

 

[Biarritz13]

I wonder why it hasn't been investigated more.

 

[Hip]

Too bad we don't have more pictures.

If I could get the usernames of all the people who voted in this poll, I could PM them, and ask them to post a picture. Unfortunately, I don't think you can get the usernames.

 

[lauluce]

I read about herpangina, but the images don't correlate to what I saw, but I also was too young to understand what I was seeing. The thing is I was 13 when my disease started and I experienced those throat symptoms along with pins an needles on the tongue .

Basically, I felt a burning and painful sensation at the back of my throat, and in what I now know are the lingual tonsils. I couldn't see the lingual tonsils, but touching them, they felt inflamed and even they where one or two hard almost spherical lumps, I'd say of 2 mm of diameter.

At least one of those lumps remains today, and it´s actually at the boundary between the palatoglossal arch and what is behind, the lingual tonsils (this lump is at the lower part of the arch). I addded a photo where the lump isn't seen, but it is a centimetre lower than the blue circle approximately.

From time to time, along with "flu like" symptoms and throat pain at the same sites that when i was 13 this lump temporarily grows in size. If I could find a good doctor, I guess that cutting that lump and analysing it, even testing it for viruses could shed some light on all of this.

As i said, at the same time I had "canker sores", I think that's the term... they where "holes" in my hard palate that didn't close for months or even more that a year, even today the're scars where they where. Definitely something was happening at my mouth/throat, what do you think?

It's too suspicious that my first "ME" (or not ME) symptom was "pins and needles" at the TONGUE, like if what was causing the mouth/throat symptoms has affected some nerve fibre.

The following months after those symptoms started, the pins and needles expanded to the face, the sides of the head, well, the whole head, and other paresthesia appeared like increased sensitivity to touch (to the degree that I needed to cut my hair very short for my ears burned by being touched by hair). In the following year, the paresthesias expanded to the whole body, specially hands and feet...

One year and a half after the start of my story, my memory started to fail, people around me where the first to notice it, I only realised it later when It became to evident (I even lost an entire day from my memory, completely erased, quite scary for a 14 yr old boy).

2 years after the start of my story, the first more "ME-LIKE" symptoms appear; profound fatigue and pain at every joint and muscle. Many other symptoms appeared along the years, like sensibility to sound and light, complete numbness at some parts, and finally, at 28 years old approximately, post excertional malaise (wished that appeared earlier, as I discarded ME for not having it!).

This PEM is now confirmed thanks to a double 24 hs apart exercise test with CO2 measurement, showing a decrease in functioning after 24 hs of doing a 10 minute running.

Well, I ended telling my whole story, I'm really sorry, It seems that I'm just asking and not giving anything to this forum, but I never had a real support group, I used to be at some sites on facebook, but this place is better for a million reasons.

 

[Hip]

@lauluce, could you please break you above post into short paragraphs of 3 or 4 lines, with one line in-between each paragraph. Lots of ME/CFS patients, including me, have neurological issues that make it hard to read large blocks of continuous text. Many thanks.

 

[lauluce]

@lauluce, could you please break you above post into short paragraphs of 3 or 4 lines, with one line in-between each paragraph. Lots of ME/CFS patients, including me, have neurological issues that make it hard to read large blocks of continuous text. Many thanks.

done! I did it the best I could... I also can't think very clearly, but at the same time, some times, like this, I have racing toughs and I can't quite control them

 

[Hip]

As i said, at the same time I had "canker sores", I think that's the term... they where "holes" in my hard palate that didn't close for months or even more that a year, even today the're scars where they where.

That does not sound like herpangina. The mouth ulcers in herpangina heal after around 10 days. Ref: 1

 

[lauluce]

That does not sound like herpangina. The mouth ulcers in herpangina heal after around 10 days. Ref: 1

wathever the case, I think some sort of infection was taking place... I wish I could some day know wat it was. Certainly I could because there's still something wrong with my throat, actually is hurting at the same spot in the same way that18 years ago when what I described in my post happened. I just wished something like virus tests for biopsies where a common thing...

 

[frederic83]

Certainly I could because there's still something wrong with my throat, actually is hurting at the same spot in the same way that18 years ago when what I described in my post happened.

Can you be more specific ? How is it hurting, where ? Is it a wide area, a small, restricted one ? Is it itching, burning, or just hurting ?

 

[lauluce]

Can you be more specific ? How is it hurting, where ? Is it a wide area, a small, restricted one ? Is it itching, burning, or just hurting ?

uhm, good question, regarding sensations sometimes precision is hard to achieve. Basically, what hurts is the back of the throat (posterior pharynx wall), extending upward to what would be the upper limit of the pharynx. I marked the spot on the attached picture with a red ellipse. The sensation is a mix of a not too strong pain (weaker than what you would feel with a full blown common sore throat) and a burning sensation that is what bothers me the most. What is stranger is that this sensations extend to the scalp on a somewhat opposite side of the affected area of the pharinx wall, marked with a blue circle in the picture. It's some sort of "referred pharesthesia", and curiously the scalp sensation can be momentously relieved by rubbing the area with my hand. It has been with me for 18 years. Anybody has this or something similar?

 

[frederic83]

uhm, good question, regarding sensations sometimes precision is hard to achieve. Basically, what hurts is the back of the throat (posterior pharynx wall), extending upward to what would be the upper limit of the pharynx. I marked the spot on the attached picture with a red ellipse. The sensation is a mix of a not too strong pain (weaker than what you would feel with a full blown common sore throat) and a burning sensation that is what bothers me the most. What is stranger is that this sensations extend to the scalp on a somewhat opposite side of the affected area of the pharinx wall, marked with a blue circle in the picture. It's some sort of "referred pharesthesia", and curiously the scalp sensation can be momentously relieved by rubbing the area with my hand. It has been with me for 18 years. Anybody has this or something similar?

I don't have a sore throat but I have a small itchy spot for years in the left pharynx area. It is not burning or hurting. Most of the time, I do not notice it.
A few years ago, I tried Valtrex and after a few days, a small ulcer took place at the same spot. It was painful to swallow. So I stopped Valtrex, and within a few days, it came back to normal. I guess I have an herpes infection in this spot. It is not enlarging, apparently, with time.

 

[lauluce]

I don't have a sore throat but I have a small itchy spot for years in the left pharynx area. It is not burning or hurting. Most of the time, I do not notice it.
A few years ago, I tried Valtrex and after a few days, a small ulcer took place at the same spot. It was painful to swallow. So I stopped Valtrex, and within a few days, it came back to normal. I guess I have an herpes infection in this spot. It is not enlarging, apparently, with time.

Is that the drug that has been found to be useful for people with ME and high EBV antibody titers?

 

[frederic83]

Is that the drug that has been found to be useful for people with ME and high EBV antibody titers?

Yes, Valtrex (valaciclovir) is an antiviral that is more or less useful for EBV. Some people say it helps a lot, other don't or can't tolerate it. I don't use it because I can't tolerate it anymore.
Dr Lerner prescribe it a lot to his patients.

Famvir (famciclovir), which is another antiviral for some herpes virus, is usually more tolerable.

 

[lauluce]

Yes, Valtrex (valaciclovir) is an antiviral that is more or less useful for EBV. Some people say it helps a lot, other don't or can't tolerate it. I don't use it because I can't tolerate it anymore.
Dr Lerner prescribe it a lot to his patients.

Famvir (famciclovir), which is another antiviral for some herpes virus, is usually more tolerable.

I wish I coulkd try one of those one day, my herpes simplex II antibody titer is extremely high, despite just regarding igg antibodies. Perhaps that's whats infecting my throat after all