peroxynitrite more involved than realized ?

[Mimi]

@dannybex, this article has some very interesting things to say about nitric oxide.

 

[dannybex]

You're right. I'm going to edit the above. (Done!) Superoxide is not SOD. SOD, or superoxide dismutase, is what reduces superoxide so that it is destroyed. Bitter melon has a tremendous reputation in traditional Chinese medicine and my 72 year old acupuncture teacher swore by it. I think you just convinced me to start eating bitter melon on a regular basis

As for your hip and back pain, why don't you stop for a while and see if the pain goes away?

Thanks. I guess I will.

I think it may be due to running out of thiamine about a week ago, and using benfotiamine instead. I used to get amazing results from injectable thiamine -- less irritable, more patient, more calm, helped with gastroparesis a bit -- but (broken record again) can't afford it.

 

[dannybex]

I wonder if it is high in vitamin K. Try to balance it with Gamma E, or vit A (sporadically).

I doubt it -- such a tiny capsule -- but thanks for the input. I've possibly been taking too much "A" and some "E" from time to time, so will back off those (and try to get some thiamine) and see if things improve. Right now, it's my left hip, earlier it was my lower back…moves around.

sigh...

 

[Mimi]

I'm sorry to hear that. It's difficult not being able to afford what you need. Does high dose oral thiamine help? What if you took it with taurine and magnesium?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@dannybex have you got silica covered? It is essential for bone issues. If you have acces to high Si waters like Volvic of Fiji there is no need to supplement.

 

[ahmo]

I've just experienced reductions in my peroxynitrite from 2 interventions. First was adding FMN form of B2, which allowed me to stop taking the supps I'd needed to counter peroxy. Most recently I've just completed a 3 day fast. It was not fun, I had zero energy. But now I've been able to stop the other things I'd been relying on to reduce peroxynitrite, high carrot and Omega-6 seeds/nuts. Without having the symptoms I'd been chasing since the beginning of the year.

In the first evidence of a natural intervention triggering stem cell-based regeneration of an organ or system, a study in the June 5 issue of the Cell Press journal Cell Stem Cell shows that cycles of prolonged fasting not only protect against immune system damage -- a major side effect of chemotherapy -- but also induce immune system regeneration, shifting stem cells from a dormant state to a state of self-renewal....

"When you starve, the system tries to save energy, and one of the things it can do to save energy is to recycle a lot of the immune cells that are not needed, especially those that may be damaged," Longo said. "What we started noticing in both our human work and animal work is that the white blood cell count goes down with prolonged fasting. Then when you re-feed, the blood cells come back. So we started thinking, well, where does it come from?"

Prolonged fasting forces the body to use stores of glucose, fat and ketones, but also breaks down a significant portion of white blood cells. Longo likens the effect to lightening a plane of excess cargo.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140605141507.htm

 

[Mimi]

I believe fasting, at least short ones, also raises BH4...

 

[ahmo]

I believe fasting, at least short ones, also raises BH4...

Do you understand this to be a short-term response, or a long term shift?

 

[Mimi]

I don't recall.

 

[Kathevans]

@Mimi What a terrific piece on purring! I've chanted with the Buddhists for over 15 years and know it stimulates serotonin. I can begin a session thoroughly depressed, weepy even, and end with laughter. I was never very good at silent meditation--though if I chant for a while, I often end in a wonderful peaceful buzz--but the chanting itself, the repetiitive voicing, the rhythm of it is amazingly centering. And speaking of voicing, my musician brother who's come with me more than once, notes that in groups we tend to chant in triads. And when a strong voice rises in tone, the entire group follows. One of the things that can drive me nuts is a person who chants off key!

The effects of chanting are definitely cumulative. If I don't do it for a few days, I feel out of wack.

 

[Mimi]

Me, too! Getting into Vajrayana has been the best thing for me EVER.

 

[ahmo]

There's a research paper due out in Dec 2015 that you can view on Researchgate. The cause of fatigue is inflammation leading to oxidative stress. Not just CFS but also Lyme, depression, neurological diseases, etc. Peroxynitrite at the heart of it all. Big review paper, well worth a read.

I know this is out of sequence, but I've been reviewing this thread and wanted to comment on this, re inflammation. Not long after I was on a theraputic dose of low dose naltrexone, I had a marked improvement in stamina. Clearly points to decreased inflammation resulting in decreased fatigue. And getting on top of peroxynitrite has been my project this year, each gain resulting in less discomfort and fatigue.

 

[Mimi]

Hi Ahmo, I'm so glad you did. I just got LDN. Did you start low and slow? Were there any side effects? I had a dream a few weeks ago where I was clearly told to focus on inflammation. Inflammation seems to always result in high peroxynitrite and low BH4 with all the concomitant symptoms of low amines (serotonin, dopamine and downstream). Oh yeah, I also read a paper on kynurenines that said inflammation causes tryptophan to go down the kynurenine pathway and create more inflammation instead of being converted to serotonin. My cureall for everything is BH4.

 

[ahmo]

@Mimi Yes, I started with match-head sized dose. You might want to start AM dosing. I had slightly restless sleep a few times, but not bad. I also had some detox response, but I was prepared for this from the long LDN thread, so I used my stand-by Coffee Enemas. I increased by match-head amounts until I got to .5mg, stayed there probably a week, then 1 mg, and so on. slowly, up until my current 4 mg dose.

I started out w/ compounded LDN from the chemist who makes my thyroid. But I've now switched to Indian 50mg naltrexone tablets. Dissolve 5omg in 50 ml distilled water for easy dosing. This is so much cheaper. alldaychemist.com

Inflammation seems to always result in high peroxynitrite and low BH4 with all the concomitant symptoms of low amines (serotonin, dopamine and downstream)

This is really interesting. My brain has a really hard time consolidating the biochemistry, but my experience is irrefutable I thought at times of trying BH4, but the expense never seemed to warrant it, and once I got some understanding of Pall, it became clear that there was more to the picture than just adding another substance. I'm so relieved to have gotten some relief from the peroxynitrite cascade.

 

[Mimi]

I'm glad, too! It would be nice not to need so much BH4. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[dannybex]

I'm sorry to hear that. It's difficult not being able to afford what you need. Does high dose oral thiamine help? What if you took it with taurine and magnesium?

Sorry @Mimi -- I've been distracted over on the oxalates-probiotics thread, after I wrongly took glycine for about a week or two and developed severe back and hip pain (glycine increases oxalates esp if b6 deficient).

I was able to pick up some thiamine on Saturday -- 300mg tablets. So will see. Taurine doesn't seem to agree with me over the last year or so -- but I'll test it again in a few months. Too diuretic, and I already pee like a racehorse.

 

[dannybex]

I had the opportunity to hear Dr. David Bell speak on Saturday, and was really impressed. Some day I'll try and write up a summary, but it's also supposed to turn up on video, perphaps on youtube.

But one of the main things he emphasized was 'reactive oxygen species', which he noted was 'the cause' of the chronicity of the disease.

 

[ahmo]

@Kathevans Your post inspired me to hum yesterday. I used to love humming and chanting, but haven't done much for a long time. My became really attentive, snuggled right in to me. She generally only cuddles when she's trying to get fed.

 

[Mimi]

@ahmo Aw, that's so cute! I'm going to try that with my two kitties. Come to think of it, one of them always snuggles up to me when I'm chanting. I figured her for a bliss freak because I was calling on the buddha of bliss, but I didn't realize it might be the chanting itself.

@dannybex, no worries. I'm often away for months at a time. If I remember correctly (and that's a big IF) both thiamine and taurine help magnesium get into the cells. Since taurine doesn't work for you, and if magnesium is the issue, then maybe some ionic magnesium that you take sublingually would help. Mother Earth Minerals makes one such product. I've tried Good Earth and Eidon but I think this one has been working the best for me.

 

[Violeta]

I am working my way through this thread, and am way behind everyone else here, but the one thing that may be in the thread but I haven't found yet is,h what is the root cause of the excess of peroxynitrite. I was reading about peroxynitrite, NO, ROS and iNOS about 2 months ago, but did not get so in depth as the info here. But I did see that bacteria can cause production of iNOS, and tonight I found this article with respect to viruses. I am more so asking what everyone here thinks about viruses and bacteria with respect to peroxynitrite than saying that they are the root cause.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2327086/

And I was wondering if viruses had any sort of part in the BH4 activity, and did find that they do, but I don't know if this relates to what is spoken about in this thread because of my brain being in a bad way from having dental work done today.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2013/738794/

I had read that peroxynitrite might be involved in tinnitus, and if I could get to the root of that and reverse it, that would be so great.