peroxynitrite more involved than realized ?

Violeta

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I get instantly hypothyroid from asparagus :(
Really? Do you get an early alert by your voice getting hoarse? I get that not long after eating high folate vegetables and peanuts, then if I continue to eat the food, I get a whole host of other symptoms that I thought were hypothyroid, cold and hot flushes, low body temperature, headache, just a whole long list. The reason I say I "thought" it was hypothyroid is that I don't know if it's actually my thyroid that's affected or something on the cellular level such as converting T4 to T3.

Do oats or cauliflower bother you? From the book, "Uric Acid as a Factor in the Causation of Disease", the author put those two on his list of purine foods, along with asparagus, that would cause symptoms in his patients. I would like to know exactly what the level of purines is in those foods, or if he was seeing the reaction for a different reason.

If it weren't so late I would look into that more, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Too bad the medical field isn't into helping people figure stuff like this out. It's like a huge puzzle with hundreds of tiny pieces.
 

Violeta

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No, not glands. Rather, a feeling like getting ready to crash: fullness in head, verging on headache, squinty eyes, increased sensitivity to noises, an overall feeling of misery.:ill:
Do you tend toward low blood pressure? Nitric oxide lowers blood pressure, I wonder if peroxynitrite does, too.

Olive leaf extract increases NO, so I have to be careful to not take too much or my symptoms become worse. Have you tried olive leaf extract?
 

ahmo

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Yes, tendency toward low BP, but no longer problematic. I used olive leaf as part of a fungal/bacterial purge. Then I discovered it on Martin Pall's list of antioxidants, and began using it especially as tea. After some weeks, I switched to green tea, much cheaper and readily available.
 

Violeta

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This paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11855675 says that
Abstract
In cerebral arteries isolated from most of mammals, nerve stimulation produces relaxations in contrast to contractions in peripheral arteries. The relaxant mechanism is found to be non-adrenergic and non-cholinergic, but the neurotransmitter is not clarified until recently. Based on several functional and histological studies with isolated cerebral arteries, nitric oxide (NO) is now considered to be a neurotransmitter of the vasodilator nerve and the nerve has been called a nitroxidergic (nitrergic) nerve. Upon neural excitation, calcium influxed through N-type Ca2+ channels activates neuronal NO synthase, and then NO is produced by the enzyme from L-arginine. The released NO activates soluble guanylate cyclase in smooth muscle cells, resulting in relaxation with a cyclic GMP-dependent mechanism. The functional role and neuronal pathway have also been investigated in anesthetized dogs and Japanese monkeys. The nitroxidergic (nitrergic) nerves innervating the circulus arteriosus, including the anterior and middle cerebral and posterior communicating arteries, are found to be postganglionic nerves originated from the ipsilateral pterygopalatine ganglion and tonically dilate cerebral arteries in the resting condition. Our findings suggest that the nitroxidergic (nitrergic) nerve plays a physiologically important role to maintain a steady blood supply to the
brain.

If for some reason NO is being converted to peroxynitrite, and if peroxynitrite does not fulfill the role of NO in the brain at the nitrergic nerves, would that cause blood supply deprivation resulting in headache?

Sick headache in the AM is probably my worst symptom.
 
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ahmo

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f for some reason NO is being converted to peroxynitrite, and if peroxynitrite does not fulfill the role of NO in the brain at the nitrergic nerves, would that cause blood supply deprivation resulting in headache?
That's really interesting. I'm not really a headache person. And I label my peroxy symptoms as verging-on-headache. Rather than, say, a distinct pain in some part of my head, there's an overall experience of something closing down in my head.
 

Violeta

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I have to say that my head issue isn't a headache either. Part of it is facial neuralgia and part of it is a sick feeling in my head. I usually have a lot of pain around my eyes, too.
 

Violeta

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It looks like these authors were wondering the same thing. Look through the table of contents. https://books.google.com/books?id=Ag9F0RxSyMgC&pg=PR6&dq=peroxynitrite nitrergic neural transmission gert folkerts frans nijkamp&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAGoVChMInsbXl9uIxgIVi2OMCh2YQAA9#v=onepage&q=peroxynitrite nitrergic neural transmission gert folkerts frans nijkamp&f=false

And this book looks like it has some interesting information in it.

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0080920446
Louis J. Ignarro - 2009 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
Peroxynitrite-mediated inactivation of manganese superoxide dismutase involves nitration and oxidation of critical tyrosine ... of folic acid byperoxynitrite and hypochlorous acid, and the selective binding of 10-nitro-folate to folate receptor beta.


What does it mean????
 

Violeta

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Yeah, I realize that, just was thinking about copper ions and how uric acid is an antioxidant for it, and how oxalic acid seems to bind to copper ions, too. Oxalates cause some people pain, but not everyone, I wonder why? There has to be something in the tissue of people who have vulvodynia that is not universal.


And oh gee, I saw an image of oxalates created by aspergillus when I was looking up copper oxalate kidney stones!
 
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Gondwanaland

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1. Dark Leafy Greens
Spinach - dose dependendt (but it is hi-ox/nitrates and can bother me for this reason)
Collard Greens - never ate it
Turnip Greens - never ate it
Mustard Greens - yes (nitrates)
Romaine Lettuce - dose dependent (nitrates)

2. Asparagus - yes

3. Broccoli - no, but I never overdo with it

4. Citrus Fruits - no
Papaya
Oranges
Grapefruit - can't stand its taste, so never eat it
Strawberries
Raspberries (too hi-ox and I get ureter pain - passing stones?)

5. Beans, Peas and Lentils - no, but they are hi-ox and I get dose-dependent arthritis

6. Avocado - yes

7. Okra - no, and sometimes I seem to crave this hi-ox food

8. Brussels Sprout - haven't eaten it in yeeeears

9. Seeds and Nuts - no, but they are hi-ox and I get dose-dependent arthritis

10. Cauliflower - no, but I never overdo with it

11. Beets - dose-dependent

12. Corn - haven't eaten it in yeeeears, but never had problems with it

13. Celery - hi-ox/nitrate

14. Carrots - arthritis

15. Squash - no

The hi-nitrate foods seemed to cause me trouble last year when I was salicylate intolerant
 

Violeta

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I suppose ox makes copper unavailable then?

:wide-eyed:
I imagine it only binds to unbound copper ions that aren't being carried by a protein or in an enzyme. More like doing mop up than depriving. However, I do think I saw that copper or iron ions are set free from enzymes in acidic conditions.

But that of course is if my other theory is true. I suppose it could be at least partially true if there is such a thing as copper oxalate kidney stones. Unless the oxalate is removing copper from the enzymes, it is an acid after all.


I am hoping someone else comes along with some knowledge or sources. I always should add "I don't know."
 

alicec

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@alicec semms to know a lot about oxaltes. I read something about ox binding to Na, Cu and Zn other than Ca.
Oxalates don't act as anti-oxidants. They serve no useful purpose whatsoever but are plant poisons that we have varying abilities to deal with depending on many other things. While we know some things about how oxalates accumulate and cause problems, there is no clear understanding of why in one person this would manifest as kidney stones, in another as interstitial cystitis and in another a something completely different.

Oxalates do bind all metals forming insoluble salts which renders the metal unusable. They are strong metal chelators and can certainly mobilise metals from other sites; whether they do this depends on how tightly the metal is already bound.

Various minerals, including copper, can be found in calcium oxalate kidney stones but only in small amounts. There is no copper oxalate stone.

I don't know of any special direct relationship between copper and oxalates but there does appear to be one between zinc and oxalates (and hence indirectly one to copper). Zinc does seem to inhibit formation of calcium oxalate stones. In addition, oxalate accumulation seems to cause zinc wasting in urine which would in turn upset zinc/copper balance.
 

ahmo

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Oxalates do bind all metals forming insoluble salts which renders the metal unusable. They are strong metal chelators and can certainly mobilise metals from other sites; whether they do this depends on how tightly the metal is already bound.
That's really interesting alice. When I was in the midst of eliminating metals, my body was requesting hi-oxalate foods. I kept looking for the connection you've stated, but couldn't find anything. So I thought it must be more about the antioxidant qualities of those foods, but you've solved the mystery.:nerd: