Interesting and timely thread on these conflicting hypotheses.
Back in 2004 I went from 40% to about 80% within about 2-3 weeks after my doc at the time prescribed methyl-b12 shots along with nebulized glutathione. I did the glutathione for about six weeks and the b12 for about six months, then thiamine injections for 2 months. The improvement lasted about a year, then I ran out of funds, stress increased 10,000% (well, maybe 9,999%), and crashed back to 40-50% or so. And thanks to time and brain fog, I totally forgot about the methyl-b12 injections until late 2011-early 2012.
Since then I've been doing methylation off and on for several years and continue to deteriorate. Now this could be due to many factors. I had a bad reaction at first (late 2010), panicked, and restarted cautiously 8 months later. As a result I haven't stuck with a specific amount of the various nutrients on a consistent basis, so that may explain part of my poor results. Also haven't been able to afford any injections, except for one round of thiamine (which helped) this past January.
I definitely notice periods however where I suddenly feel a little better, more optimistic, more 'energy' an hour or so after a b12 sublingual. But it's not consistent. Same with folinic acid. It definitely helps me sleep -- very deeply sometimes -- but the amount I need to take seems to vary quite a bit. Again, maybe this would change if I took it 3-4 times a day regularly?
Anyway, because of these mixed reactions, and overall downward trend, I'll dump anything that might be causing problems and am open to trying a different approach.
Martin Pall came and spoke to our local group back in 2006-2007, and came off as very genuine and sincerely committed to his hypothesis. Makes sense as he developed it to recover from his MCS.
But there are others out there who suggest that we're taking too many antioxidants as it is, and that in doing so, we're interfering with normal immune function.
One who disagrees with Pall is Randolph M. Howes M.D, this from an email from 2007 (already!):
"First, I do not accept the so-called concept of oxidative stress that was proposed by Sies. Oxidation is the primary process which protects us from pathogens, such as bacteria, viruses, protozoans, fungi and cancer. Thus, I believe that it is unsafe to promote the ingestion large quantities of antioxidants."
When he expressed doubt that CFS is a real disease, I replied assuring him that it was, and here is part of his reply:
"t is not very well known but the father of the free radical theory, Dr. Denham Harman, stated in a conversation with Jack Cheatum that ingestion of too much of the antioxidants will lead to "fatigue." This makes sense, since the antioxidants are trying to interfere with the electron transport chain, which is the major energy generating system in the body and produces ATP.
Actually, I have speculated in some of my writings that overuse of antioxidants may be in part responsible for the increase in chronic fatigue syndrome but this too is purely speculative. You mentioned a weakened immune system and please keep in mind that the immune system protects us by using oxidative agents, such as hyrogen peroxide, superoxide anion, singlet oxygen, hypchlorous acid and possibly ozone. Prooxidants are crucial to a healthy immune system."
And then there's Dave Whitlock, who completely disagrees with Dr. Pall. I've been intrigued by Whitlock's hypothesis as well, but also don't quite understand it. But while googling on another issue I came across this by Whitlock, which is interesting -- suggesting that we've gone overboard with our modern hygiene practices, leading to a loss of nitrate producing bacteria and increased rates of chronic illness:
https://books.google.com/books?id=a3mwmXzpsjkC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA103&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
@JPV -- I wasn't aware that Whitlock had a product out, and couldn't find it for sale on a quick search. Do you have more info or have you been able to purchase it?
Back in 2004 I went from 40% to about 80% within about 2-3 weeks after my doc at the time prescribed methyl-b12 shots along with nebulized glutathione. I did the glutathione for about six weeks and the b12 for about six months, then thiamine injections for 2 months. The improvement lasted about a year, then I ran out of funds, stress increased 10,000% (well, maybe 9,999%), and crashed back to 40-50% or so. And thanks to time and brain fog, I totally forgot about the methyl-b12 injections until late 2011-early 2012.
Since then I've been doing methylation off and on for several years and continue to deteriorate. Now this could be due to many factors. I had a bad reaction at first (late 2010), panicked, and restarted cautiously 8 months later. As a result I haven't stuck with a specific amount of the various nutrients on a consistent basis, so that may explain part of my poor results. Also haven't been able to afford any injections, except for one round of thiamine (which helped) this past January.
I definitely notice periods however where I suddenly feel a little better, more optimistic, more 'energy' an hour or so after a b12 sublingual. But it's not consistent. Same with folinic acid. It definitely helps me sleep -- very deeply sometimes -- but the amount I need to take seems to vary quite a bit. Again, maybe this would change if I took it 3-4 times a day regularly?
Anyway, because of these mixed reactions, and overall downward trend, I'll dump anything that might be causing problems and am open to trying a different approach.
Martin Pall came and spoke to our local group back in 2006-2007, and came off as very genuine and sincerely committed to his hypothesis. Makes sense as he developed it to recover from his MCS.
But there are others out there who suggest that we're taking too many antioxidants as it is, and that in doing so, we're interfering with normal immune function.
One who disagrees with Pall is Randolph M. Howes M.D, this from an email from 2007 (already!):
"First, I do not accept the so-called concept of oxidative stress that was proposed by Sies. Oxidation is the primary process which protects us from pathogens, such as bacteria, viruses, protozoans, fungi and cancer. Thus, I believe that it is unsafe to promote the ingestion large quantities of antioxidants."
When he expressed doubt that CFS is a real disease, I replied assuring him that it was, and here is part of his reply:
"t is not very well known but the father of the free radical theory, Dr. Denham Harman, stated in a conversation with Jack Cheatum that ingestion of too much of the antioxidants will lead to "fatigue." This makes sense, since the antioxidants are trying to interfere with the electron transport chain, which is the major energy generating system in the body and produces ATP.
Actually, I have speculated in some of my writings that overuse of antioxidants may be in part responsible for the increase in chronic fatigue syndrome but this too is purely speculative. You mentioned a weakened immune system and please keep in mind that the immune system protects us by using oxidative agents, such as hyrogen peroxide, superoxide anion, singlet oxygen, hypchlorous acid and possibly ozone. Prooxidants are crucial to a healthy immune system."
And then there's Dave Whitlock, who completely disagrees with Dr. Pall. I've been intrigued by Whitlock's hypothesis as well, but also don't quite understand it. But while googling on another issue I came across this by Whitlock, which is interesting -- suggesting that we've gone overboard with our modern hygiene practices, leading to a loss of nitrate producing bacteria and increased rates of chronic illness:
https://books.google.com/books?id=a3mwmXzpsjkC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA103&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
@JPV -- I wasn't aware that Whitlock had a product out, and couldn't find it for sale on a quick search. Do you have more info or have you been able to purchase it?
