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Oxymatrine in the UK?

mrmichaelfreedmen

Senior Member
Messages
156
Location
Australia
Yes, the 5:1 concentrated extract of Ku Shen (Sophora flavescens) you found at Bristol Botanicals is the one you want.

Ku Shen root herb normally contains 2% oxymatrine. So this means Ku Shen 5:1 extract (= five times stronger) powder should contain 10% oxymatrine.

Thus 2 grams of Ku Shen 5:1 extract powder will contain 200 mg oxymatrine.

I believe the usual starting dose is around 200 mg of oxymatrine once a day, slowly building up to 3 x 200 mg a day. Though I am not entirely sure, as the oxymatrine content of Equilibrant is not given.

The White Tiger brand of Ku Shen tablets contain 200 mg of oxymatrine per tablet.

Some other suppliers of Ku Shen / oxymatrine are here:

http://qiherbs.com/oxymatrine.html
http://www.maxnature.com/oxtati.html
http://www.chineseherbs.net/index.php?l=product_detail&p=287
http://www.ktbotanicals.com/ku-shen...p-14242.html?zenid=ac1i2vruokh9rml6ugd0no26u3
http://www.betterlife.com/product/oxymatrine-300-mg/lloyd-wright/34465

@Hip

Any feedback on the http://www.betterlife.com/product/oxymatrine-300-mg/lloyd-wright/34465 oxymatrine?

Have been on the White Tiger oxymatrine for a while with no issues and wondering if the lloyd wright one is similar as wanting to switch.
 
Messages
95
Location
SoCal
No, but it only makes major improvements in around 30% of ME/CFS patients with enterovirus infection.

This root powder of Oxymatrine (non-extract) just kicked me butt. Ended up vomiting and worst headache ever.

Update: I tried 2 grams today and still pretty light headache but not vomit strong yet. I been chugging water like crazy. I read "Hip" information on the 2 version of the Oxymatrine White Tiger vs Alternative Medicine Solutions. Just ordered the Alternative Medicine Solutions and hope it's not as bad!
 
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nsdn

Senior Member
Messages
183
No, but it only makes major improvements in around 30% of ME/CFS patients with enterovirus infection.

Hi.

What test is used to classify the patient?

With a Coxsackievirus or Echovirus IGG in plasma is enough?


Thank you very much.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
With a Coxsackievirus or Echovirus IGG in plasma is enough?

Yes, high IgG titers to CVB or echovirus are the criteria used by Dr Chia to prescribe oxymatrine.

But note that the only type of antibody test that is sensitive enough to detect the chronic enterovirus infections in ME/CFS is the antibody test by the neutralization method. Other methods such as ELISA, IGA and CFT mare not sensitive enough to reliably detect chronic enterovirus (but they are fine other viruses).

The ARUP Lab tests for CVB and echovirus in the US use the neutralization method, as does the CVB test provided by the Hellenic Pasteur Institute in Greece.


It's very hard to find these antibody neutralization tests for enterovirus. So an alternative is trying oxymatrine even without being tested (this is what I did originally).




Some Sources for Oxymatrine

Equilibrant oxymatrine tablets (Dr John Chia's brand) available at equilibranthealth

Alternative Medicine Solutions oxymatrine (300 mg oxymatrine per capsule) available here:
alternativemedicinesolutionbetterlifealchemistlaborganicpharmacyamazon

White Tiger brand oxymatrine (200 mg oxymatrine per tablet) available here:
chineseherbsacuatlantanaturalnutritionalsgoldenneedleonlinemaxnaturebiomedonline (Netherlands)

I found the White Tiger brand (which contains both matrine and oxymatrine) caused dizziness for an hour or so after taking each tablet, whereas the Alternative Medicine Solutions brand (which contains only pure oxymatrine) did not cause this side effect.

Note that Dr Chia says oxymatrine is not recommended for people with autoimmune tendencies or seizure disorders.
 
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nsdn

Senior Member
Messages
183
Thank you very much @Hip .

I have antibodies COXSACKIE B IgG antibodies and COXSACKIE A9 IgG positive. Already sick since 2013, 12/2015 positive for ECHOVIRUS IgG + IgM and my doctor did not care. It is normal?

Ordered 2 cans of Oxymatrine to the people of betterlife.com and shipping to Spain is reasonable. 9 USD We'll see if it arrives. Here everything that comes from EE. UU It is likely to be inspected by customs. I understand that 200 capsules are sufficient for a test. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Greetings
Much strength!
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
I have antibodies COXSACKIE B IgG antibodies and COXSACKIE A9 IgG positive

It depends on how high the titers are. For example, in the ARUP lab tests, Dr Chia says 1:320 or higher indicates chronic active infection.



Ordered 2 cans of Oxymatrine to the people of betterlife.com and shipping to Spain is reasonable. 9 USD

Yes, I think two jars should be enough. If you start slowly and build up to say 4 a day, that would be around 8 or 9 weeks supply.

Betterlife.com have a good price, that's where I bought my oxymatrine.
 

nsdn

Senior Member
Messages
183
For example, in the ARUP lab tests, Dr Chia says 1:320 or higher indicates chronic active infection.

Thank you. Do you know the one considered positive in that laboratory in a standard way (no interpretation of Chia)? So I can make an estimate with mine.
 

nsdn

Senior Member
Messages
183
I have 1:80. I think it's best to try Oxymatrine.

I will inform you how it goes.

Thanks for the help.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
I have 1:80.

I am guessing your antibody test would have been by the ELISA or IFA method, which are not as sensitive as the neutralization method. If you were tested using neutralization, your titers may well be higher. So it may well be an idea to try oxymatrine.

Dr Chia finds that around 30% will make major improvements on oxymatrine. So it is a 1 in 3 chance of making a major improvement.
 
Messages
95
Location
SoCal
I am guessing your antibody test would have been by the ELISA or IFA method, which are not as sensitive as the neutralization method. If you were tested using neutralization, your titers may well be higher. So it may well be an idea to try oxymatrine.

Dr Chia finds that around 30% will make major improvements on oxymatrine. So it is a 1 in 3 chance of making a major improvement.
Hip how you have the energy to reply to all these post? :eek:
 

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
@Hip do you know if CFS patients with entero titres tend to get any improvement with other immune modulating treatments?
Things not recommended by chia
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
@Hip do you know if CFS patients with entero titres tend to get any improvement with other immune modulating treatments?
Things not recommended by chia

Dr Chia uses oxymatrine, inosine, Epivir and more recently tenofovir to treat enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. He has also in the past used ribavirin and interferon.

I don't know any effective treatments for enterovirus other than those (except perhaps my high dose selenium protocol, which helped my enterovirus-associated ME/CFS quite a bit; but most other people trying it did not seem to benefit much from this protocol).
 

Dallase1

Senior Member
Messages
115
Dr Chia uses oxymatrine, inosine, Epivir and more recently tenofovir to treat enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. He has also in the past used ribavirin and interferon.

I don't know any effective treatments for enterovirus other than those (except perhaps my high dose selenium protocol, which helped my enterovirus-associated ME/CFS quite a bit; but most other people trying it did not seem to benefit much from this protocol).
Do you know the dose he used in the actual studies for Oxymatrine? Was it 600mg, 900mg or more mg?