No love of B2 here - a warning about riboflavin

[alicec]

Being -MAO-A means that the enzyme acts faster than for +MAO-A.

I don't think that's right. The promoter polymorphism, characterised as the so-called warrier gene, affects the rate at which the gene is transcribed. There is more or less enzyme with normal activity. People with a low activity promoter make less of the enzyme, hence are less able to breakdown various neurotransmitters. These are the people who developed aggressive behaviour if placed in conditions of childhood neglect/abuse. Just having this promoter variation was not enough to cause problems.

Please note this promoter polymorphism does NOT correlate with rs6323 (MAOA R297R) as is often erroneously claimed, nor does this SNP result in a slower or faster enzyme. Actually the SNP does nothing - the product of the variant gene is identical to that produced by the wild-type gene.

In the very rare Brunner syndrome a truncated form of the enzyme was produced which did have reduced activity - but this condition is extremely rare.

These are the only significant MAOA polymorphisms that I am aware of.

If he takes Mfolate, his enzyme gets even faster.

I don't follow this. How does methylfolate affect the activity of MAOA?

 

[Eastman]

How does methylfolate affect the activity of MAOA?

@alicec, do you know why Bill Walsh thinks folate increases reuptake of serotonin?

 

[alicec]

do you know why Bill Walsh thinks folate increases reuptake of serotonin?

No sorry.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks for chiming in, @alicec I will have to elaborate my doubts to try to clarify this

@alicec, do you know why Bill Walsh thinks folate increases reuptake of serotonin?

Mfolate is indeed prescribed for depression (it works in reverse for my husband though) and as per Promethease +/+MAO-A is associated with schizophrenia (I have the former but not the latter) which is absurd because it would mean that at least half of world's population would have it...

 

[alicec]

Mfolate is indeed prescribed for depression (it works in reverse for my husband though) and as per Promethease +/+MAO-A is associated with schizophrenia (I have the former but not the latter) which is absurd because it would mean that at least half of world's population would have it...

Yes methylfolate does seem to be helpful for depression. There could be many reasons for this - it was the direct link to MAOA activity that I didn't follow.

Promethease is reporting research which did show an association between various SNPs of MAOA and schizophrenia. Note these are associations -the SNPs are more common in people with the disease but this doesn't mean causation. Having the SNPs doesn't mean you have the disease.

The problem is that many of the early SNP association studies were inadequate - too small, inappropriate statistics. Really they don't mean anything.

More recent GWAS on very large populations, using appropriate statistics, have shown that most of these associations disappear. I'm pretty sure that MAOA falls into this category. Even if it still considered to be associated with the disorder, it would be making a very small contribution in a complex interplay of more than 100 genes.

 

[Jenny TipsforME]

It is interesting because I've recently changed to a much higher dose b2 supplement and I've been uncharacteristically low. There are a couple of potential circumstantial reasons for this too, but it is very out of character for me. I'm more prone to unrealistic optimism and high motivation that interferes with pacing.

I just want to quickly correct this. When I did this comparison http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ins-which-brand-do-you-buy.47382/#post-774945 I realise that actually the B2 quantity was the same in both supplement brands, so that wasn't the problem. However, my temporary almost-depression state was quickly reversed when I stopped taking LEF and switched to Jarrows' this week. There's so much in that multivitamin though, so I probably won't know what it was until I happen upon it again in a different supplement.

 

[Eastman]

This sounds familiar.

LEF Multivitamin making me feel bad

 

[jjxx]

Supplementing potassium did nothing for me either!

Strange, potassium clearly is the rescue for me on Freddd's protocol, which I learned within days.
However, I don't doubt the possibility of lowering serotonin in other people, since our physiological constitution can vary greatly.

 

[jjxx]

I should be more specific with my symptom relieved by potassium: elevated heart beat, no sense of depression. And that's why potassium comes to rescue. However, I would much rather be on the same side, that's why I cut down metafolin 800mcg to half at a time, twice a day without fast heat beat. It's true: start low and slow

 

[keenly]

B2 gave me nightmares.

Same here.

 

[keenly]

Moly never worked for me, probably b/c together w/ B2 it increases uric acid.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...bolism-simplified-chart-and-b-vitamins.34375/

Dr Cheney says increasing uric acid is a great thing.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Dr Cheney says increasing uric acid is a great thing.

Not to the point of getting gout pain

 

[justy]

Dr Cheney says increasing uric acid is a great thing.

I wonder why - my uric acid is very low and was under the impression other PWME have this too.

 

[Porke]

Just want to echo the OP's original message. B2 (even at doses as low as 5mg p/d) gives me alternating depression and anxiety. Tried 2 different brands with the same results. Its a pity because it does WONDERS for my dry and irritated eyes. Within a few hours of taking it, my eyes are sparkly white and feel great. Numerous references online for B2 maintaining mucous membranes. This is the reason I tried it in the first place.

The mood issues become totally intolerable after 3 or 4 days and I am forced to stop. Also cannot tolerate ANY methyl supplements like b12, folate etc. Slow titration and potassium doesn't help in the least. I think there is a portion of us who simply don't tolerate methyl donors, no matter what.

Wish I could find a counter to the extreme mood issues with B2. Its a supplement I would really benefit from.

 

[bigmillz]

On day 3 of @Sherpa's protocol with the B2: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...elease-methylation-protocol-srmp.36344/page-6

So far so good! Just wanted to put that out there to help others - no adverse effects yet. I may be a little calmer too, but it's hard to say. I'm MAOA +/+

 

[Sherpa]

@bigmillz Good luck & let us know how it goes in that thread please

 

[Gondwanaland]

I wonder why - my uric acid is very low and was under the impression other PWME have this too.

It is an endogenous antioxidant

Wish I could find a counter to the extreme mood issues with B2. Its a supplement I would really benefit from.

I suspect these issues come from hypothyroidism induced by B2 (it uses up T4 to activate other B vits)

More bad effects from B2 supplementation (supported by studies)

 

[justy]

It is an endogenous antioxidant

I suspect these issues come from hypothyroidism induced by B2 (it uses up T4 to activate other B vits)

More bad effects from B2 supplementation (supported by studies)

Brain fog bad today - can you explain more about uric acid being an 'endogenous aantioxidant? do you mean we are using it up at faster rates than healthy people as we desperately need the antioxidant properties?

 

[Gondwanaland]

do you mean we are using it up at faster rates than healthy people as we desperately need the antioxidant properties?

I think low production is more likely, but in my case I produce too much, but I guess due to low pyrimidines (if that is possible)... I think my folate/B2 should be doing something more useful than excess purines, but it seems they are stuck in the purine pathway (wild guessing of mine).

 

[grapes]

I know this is an older thread...but wanted to comment that the Organic Acids Test showed my B2 to be two points BELOW range. EEK. I "think" that has happened due to the stress of detoxing copper several times the past two years. That low B2 also fits my mito problems and CFS---my succinate was SKY HIGH in my urine...and the recommendation was B2 along with CoQ10.