New, Inexpensive CBS Ammonia Fix

[kel88]

Ohh good to know! So not everybody does seems to react to sulfate? But which CBS mutation do you got? And do youve got also BHMT mutations? They also react as CBS they say...

Where did you buy youre sulfate strips?


Off-topic:
If here is anybody who whant to seal there sulfate strips, you can contact me!

 

[brenda]

I have never used sulphate strips. It was the urine organic acid test. Please see my signature for mutations.

 

[kel88]

Hmm oke good to hear!
So you dont have to eat low sulfer ? You only have problems with ammonia then?
I saw you signature ... Much the same as i got.. Only ive got more homo"s..

 

[brenda]

My urine smells of ammonia at times. I have not tried low sulphur diet. It would be difficult due to my very limited diet already.

 

[kel88]

Well but you dont have to follow a low sulfur dieet then right when you are low on sulfur? I hop hope hope that its also the ammonia in my case. Ammonia supplrt ks easyer than sulfur support.. But i think it would be the sulfur in my case
Only the werid thing is that we almost got the same mutations .. Hmm i hope that i can get some strips to test.. Then i know ot for sure.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Gondwanaland you are right! I think i should try the moly first ... My multi contain already 100mcg. I think i wil try a caps of 500mcg en higher up to 1000mcg + multi 100 mcg.

500mcg is very high Molybdenum for some people like me with high uric acid.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@kel88 Here is a new protocol for CBS:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...h-preventing-methylfolate-side-effects.34025/

Download and read all documents linked in caledonia's signature, lots of help there. She also has a link to buy sulfate strips.

 

[bertiedog]

As you can see, Oxaloacetate is necessary to produce aspartate, and thus allow citrulline to to become argininosuccinic acid (ASA) et. But both Martin Pall and Rich Van K have suggested that our krebs cycles are stuck further upstream, meaning that we probably aren't making as much succinate, fumarate, malate, or oxaloacetate as we should be. In addition, CBS uses B6, so people with CBS upregulation would theoretically be a bit starved for B6. Aspartate transaminase, the enzyme that shunts oxaloacetate into the urea cycle, requires B6--meaning that CBS upregulation provides a double-whammy to our ability to deal with ammonia by both producing more ammonia and preventing our body from detoxifying it.

I am interested i this thread because I am COMT V158M ++ and COMT H62H ++ also MAO-A R297R + -, CBS A360a + -, CBS 299T = -, MTHFR C + - but I had high succinate on my last MAP but I do have a tendency to make too much ammonia because I can smell it from time to time when I go to the loo.

I have to eat a reasonable amount of protein because I am very sensitive to carbs so cannot cut that down anymore. I have only very recently learned my SNPs and always looking for answers.

Pam

 

[kel88]

Thanks gondwanaland! Maybe i will start lower with the moly
I will see how it go"s!!

For me long text in Englisch is hard to read
About the CBS mutation there are so many different advise! Very confusing

But thanks for the link! Appriciate it!

 

[ahmo]

@kel88 I am +/- CBS, MTHFR C677, A1298. I had already quit most high sulfur/thiol foods before I got my sulfate strips. I never tested any differently, always next to lowest, regardless of how I was feeling. Maybe that supports the idea that it's actually a peroxynitrite problem, rather than an ammonia problem??? I don't know, but I know that I need ammonia-reducing supplements, and that they are effective. I know of no way of testing for peroxy. And by and large, I've given up on testing. I treat by symptoms and self-testing for using supplements.

I'm very happy using a range of Pall's suggestions. When I was in an acute state, I self-tested + for and used more...like ADB12. Now that my system has calmed down, I need less: no extra reseveratrol, ubiquinol, butyrate; only very small amounts of ALCAR, little malic acid, much fewer carrots. Also my mast cell symptoms have quietened.

 

[kel88]

Hmmm its such hard information to understand!

I also find this:

http://www.foodsmatter.com/allergy_intolerance/sulphites/articles/sulphates_sulphites.html

Maybe thats the reason not everyone do find sulphite in there urine?

Some people say dont take epsom salt bath, other people say yes you do! This articel also recommend epsom salt bath! And also moly ! So i think i wil try high dose moly first and then i will at yucca at my food! And later i hope that i can get BH4 to try but thats off topic ! Sorry!

 

[ahmo]

@kel88 thanks for the sulfites page. I've finally found that I also have problems with SUOX snp, so part of my sulfur problems come from that.

Re BH4, it's a central player in Martin Pall's theory/diagram. If the ammonia/peroxynitrite is fixed, the BH4 gets fixed. If you can, try to listen to the first part of his lecture...After finally stopping the vid and drawing the diagram myself, then following along, It began to make sense to me.

Martin Pall vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-...yer_detailpage&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=6A7r1gemjto

A second important part of the cycle involves the depletion of a compound called tetrahydrobiopterin (often abbreviated BH4), a compound that it oxidized by peroxynitrite (1,11). BH4 is what is known as a cofactor in the nitric oxide synthases (NOSs), and tetrahydrobiopterin depletion produces what has been called partial uncoupling of the NOSs. When a NOS enzyme is missing BH4, it produces superoxide in place of nitric oxide. The consequence of this is that in cells and tissues that have high NOS activity and partial uncoupling, one has many adjacent enzyme molecules, some producing nitric oxide and others producing superoxide and these will react rapidly with each other to form more peroxynitrite. This will, in turn oxidize more BH4, producing more partial uncoupling. This reciprocal relationship between peroxynitrite and BH4 depletion is, then a potential vicious cycle within the larger NO/ONOO- cycle and may constitute the essential core of the cycle. Lowering of this central couplet will be expected to produce a clinical improvement in these diseases, but will produce an increase in nitric oxide. So while I think that the net effect of nitric oxide in these diseases is negative one, agents that increase nitric oxide by lowering this central couplet should be helpful.

 

[kel88]

Ahmo oke i will try later at my computer or ipad ( moet of the time i use my iphone).

But the text that you put in youre message its hard for me to understand!
When i should take BH4, would that give a bad reaction because of the peroxynitrine?

Is peroxynitrine a good or bad thing in youre body??

I orderd today molybdenun chelaat and yucca and i will tey also lithium oretaat ive got so much pain lately! I quit the taurine and always got then so much more pain pfff...

 

[kel88]

Ohh and ahmo how did you find out that you also have suox? Did you do the test @ 23andme? Whats the SNP for SUOX do you know that?

 

[ahmo]

Sorry if this is too much information. It's just the middle of what I've been struggling to understand, myself. I was just saying that it's possible that if you reduce the ammonia, the BH4 will take care of itself.

Peroxy is bad. I've been trying to understand the relationship between ammonia and peroxy. Both of them seem to give me the same symptoms. Ammonia seems to come from food, especially. well, maybe....And peroxynitrite is directly produced from oxidative stress, which includes physical stress, exertion, and other things. Pall is saying we're in the middle of a whole series of cycles, which interact. The best we can do, as far as I can understand, is use things to reduce the ammonia/peroxynitrite. Then BH4 does what it should , and things calm down.

Someone answered me:

Doesn't Ammonnia convert to NO which converts to peroxynitrite?
High ammonia levels caused by either poor methylation (forget the SNP's involved), or even liver issues.
I know people with cirrhosis have high ammonia levels.

 

[ahmo]

I found the SUOX because I have a Firefox add-on, SNPtips, that lights up if I'm on a page where the rs numbers match my own. I couldn't find SUOX whenever I'd looked for it in the interactive program, Promethease, but yesterday picante posted her SUOX numbers and they were all lit up, matching mine.

 

[kel88]

Thanks ahmo! I understand that you would help me! But for me its very difficult to understand because im from the netherlands so the language is hard to understand . Hihi...
And than the medical terms pfffff so hard haha!

I got neuropatic pain from food ( and P5P) i thougt the food wich contains B6, but now it looks like i get pain from sulfur food or protein.. So maybe its the ammonia.
When i look at symptoms from high ammonia that ls matching.. But it could wlso be from sulfur because of the same pathway from sulfur and ammonia and the B6.
The weird thing is. Hydroxy B12 injection 10mg/2ml does help. This form binds to ammonia so i pee it out... And the brainfog go away when i inject myself...
It looks like since i take methylfolaat ( multi) my poisend feeling from sulfate or ammonia is higer... But i dont want to wuit because i like the multi from throne... Difficult difficult..

 

[kel88]

Who is picante ? She didnt post them on Phoenix Rishing?
So you dont know the RS numbers? Its a shame .. I liked to know when eighter hihi

 

[aaron_c]

A short update on my own experience with malic acid:

As I posted before, I had stopped taking the liposomal malic acid when I discovered that cooked and cooled potato starch was more effective at dealing with my ammonia issues (as I understand it, it gets turned into butyric acid by gut bacteria, and butyrate helps with ammonia). Since then, I seem to have developed some kind of reaction to potato starch, so I have had to return to malic acid.

Unlike before, I am now taking 14 mg of MK-4, a kind of vitamin k (this is a high dose). The MK-4 has changed my tolerance for number of things, including manganese and calcium, and I suspect it also increased my tolerance/need for malic acid, as earlier two sips of my liposomal malic acid gave me insomnia, whereas now it took maybe 10 sips in a day.

More recently, I have begun simply putting malic acid in pills ('0 size...maybe 300 mg?), and this seems to be working even better than the liposomal version. I believe someone else on this thread tried something like this before I did, also with success.

@kel88 Does your multivitamin contain B6 (pyridoxine, pyridoxal-5-phosphate, PLP)? You may have been saying this, but it seems like if there is B6 in your multivitamin, then it seems likely to me that the B6 is responsible for the "ammonia" symptoms from your multivitamin, not the methylfolate.

 

[ahmo]

When i look at symptoms from high ammonia that ls matching.. But it could wlso be from sulfur because of the same pathway from sulfur and ammonia and the B6.
The weird thing is. Hydroxy B12 injection 10mg/2ml does help. This form binds to ammonia so i pee it out... And the brainfog go away when i inject myself...

HydroxyB12 is one of the things martin Pall recommends to reduce the peroxynitrite. He also lists Mfolate, which seems to be making things worse for you. Maybe it's just a temporary speeding up of methylation???

then it seems likely to me that the B6 is responsible for the "ammonia" symptoms

Aaron, have you already said this, earlier???I just discovered in the past week that my P5P was giving me ammonia/peroxy symptoms. I've been taking it for about 1.5 years, without apparent problems until now. First I stopped it for 2 days, and then resumed at 1/2 doses of a 33mg cap. It took some days, but just as when I tried to add in B2, it indeed cleared my system eventually.

Please, repeat it again. I thought you'd posted that the B's don't contribute sulfur