Multiple binders

[hb8847]

@hb8847 I never considered that someone could herx from a substance designed to prevent herx! But the way you describe, it makes sense.

Ha, neither had I! The analogy Dr Nathan uses in his book (and which Seamyb mentioned earlier in this thread) is to think of binders as like magnets, and the same way magnets attracting say, iron filings, a few will become dislodged along the way.

 

[seamyb]

@hb8847 Another interesting point is that I now have the throat pain again. When I thought it was the iodine I was also taking charcoal, more than I am now. It's not as bad as it was, but it's definitely there. So there's a good chance the iodine was not the cause.

I wonder if you've had a pain in the throat yourself?

 

[seamyb]

I also wonder if you've noticed any improvement in your MCAS since taking charcoal? I stopped it for one night, two nights ago, to see if I had any improvement. Yesterday I had air hunger when I hadn't the whole time I was taking it. I took it again last night and no air hunger today. It's very strange for air hunger to come on one day and then go away the next, so the evidence is mounting for charcoal being good for it. Of course, it mightn't be an MCAS type reaction which causes it in the first place.

My bentonite clay arrived. Gonna try it at the weekend because I have a meeting at 12pm tomorrow. 12pm is a difficult time to get up for. Why am I like this!

 

[lenora]

Don't. Charcoal is for acute poisoning, not clearing out your system on a regular basis.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31219028/

Charcoal taken on a regular basis will remove nutrients from your system, although I admit to using it far more than I should. Yours, Lenora.

 

[hb8847]

@seamyb No I've not had any throat pain, it's not a symptom I usually get.

As for the Charcoal, I've not experienced any benefits yet. I didn't expect to though - when I was taking the anti-fungals a few years ago it took many months to start noticing much of an improvement and I imagine something similar will be the case with Charcoal and the other binders. For the time being all I'm expecting is Herx reactions.

Re my MCAS, again I've not noticed any improvement but it's difficult for me to tell which of my symptoms are MCAS and which are other things. I'm now thinking most of my symptoms are classic ME/CFS stuff caused by toxin overload, and probably most of those toxins are mould.

 

[hb8847]

Charcoal taken on a regular basis will remove nutrients from your system, although I admit to using it far more than I should. Yours, Lenora.

I've read it's pretty safe. And presumably it shouldn't remove too many nutrients so long as you're taking it away from food?

Something I have just read though which is interesting is that it's not recommended to take Magnesium Citrate with Activated Charcoal as it could cause problems, including electrolyte imbalances. A bit concerning then that Magnesium Citrate was recommended in Dr Nathan's book then for constipation, I've been taking it daily now for about a week.

From the above link:

"Risks. Do not combine activated charcoal with drugs used for constipation (cathartics such as sorbitol or magnesium citrate). This can cause electrolyte imbalances and other problems."

 

[Rufous McKinney]

they're triggering a Herx, which means they're hopefully removing some sort of toxins, which can only be a good thing.

thank you for sharing that, really fascinating....

I can't read for long, which is part of how I haven't gotten this figured out yet.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

t I now have the throat pain again

is this a sore throat, or another form of pain?

(sore throat is a common symptom tracking it all). I can lie down, and just read something and my throat gets more and more sore.

 

[hb8847]

Upshot: Charcoal won't detox a mycotoxin and it won't help your liver.

I'd be interested to hear your source on this. Dr Neil Nathan is the apparently authority on mycotoxins and advocates the use of Charcoal for detoxifying several different types, including Ochratoxins and Alfatoxins. He claims to have cured several of his mould-affected patients with the use of binders like Charcoal and Bentonite, and has written a highly regarded book called Toxic on the subject.

 

[seamyb]

it's not recommended to take Magnesium Citrate with Activated Charcoal

I took senacot with the charcoal one night and had blood in the stools the next day. So I kinda wondered about this msyelf!

is this a sore throat, or another form of pain?

No it's not a sore throat in the usual sense. It's hard to explain but it's like pain in and around the adam's apple, sort of muscular but not really. Dunno, it's weird. Could be glands or something.

 

[hb8847]

I took senacot with the charcoal one night and had blood in the stools the next day. So I kinda wondered about this msyelf!

Yeh probably best not to mess around with laxatives whilst simultaneously taking binders, quite irresponsible of Nathan to advocate the use of Magnesium if it does turn out to be problematic. I imagine though the low amounts of Charcoal we've been taking shouldn't be too much cause for concern. I'm definitely stopping the Magnesium now and will probably just put up with any constipation, and drink lots of fluids.

 

[hb8847]

How is your Herx going? Mine is seriously full on. It's weird too, like it was less intense yesterday than today, even though I've had no additional binders. Maybe that's because the Charcoal is still working its way through my system and displacing toxins faster than my body can get rid of them? Who knows.

Re the binders, I seem especially sensitive to the Charcoal, hopefully that's because it's getting rid of the right toxins rather than it just binding poorly to everything and dumping it all back into my body... I'm thinking I may have to bite the bullet and divide up the capsules, I think a full one is just too much for me to handle.

 

[ljimbo423]

Re the binders, I seem especially sensitive to the Charcoal, hopefully that's because it's getting rid of the right toxins rather than it just binding poorly to everything and dumping it all back into my body... I'm thinking I may have to bite the bullet and divide up the capsules, I think a full one is just too much for me to handle.

I use powdered charcoal. I just mix it in water and drink it. The dose can easily be adjusted.

 

[hb8847]

How much do you take, and how long have you been doing it?

 

[ljimbo423]

How much do you take, and how long have you been doing it?

I take 3,330 mg once a day, 2 hours after a meal, and at least an hour away from supplements. I've been taking 2 or more grams a day for a couple of years or so.

 

[seamyb]

Mine is seriously full on. It's weird too, like it was less intense yesterday than today, even though I've had no additional binders.

You answered the question for me! Exactly this. Didn't take any last night and today is way worse than yesterday. Very, very sick. Only took a portion of a cap the night before last too. And the day before that was another break. So I've decreased significantly yet I'm in torture mode.

 

[seamyb]

I take 3,330 mg

I herxed just reading that

 

[hb8847]

I take 3,330 mg, once a day, 2 hours after a meal, and at least an hour away from supplements. I've been taking 2 or more grams a day for a couple of years or so.

Holy shit! I think that amount would finish me off! Are you taking it for mould specifically, and have you seen any benefit? Have you been able to increase the dose over time?

 

[ljimbo423]

I herxed just reading that

I don't remember getting any herx reaction from the charcoal when I started it.

 

[hb8847]

You answered the question for me! Exactly this. Didn't take any last night and today is way worse than yesterday. Very, very sick. Only took a portion of a cap the night before last too. And the day before that was another break. So I've decreased significantly yet I'm in torture mode.

OK well this is sort of encouraging, knowing I'm not alone in this (although sorry that you're feeling like shit). Maybe it could be then that the Charcoal just takes time to work its way through the system and in doing so displaces more toxins? I'm wondering whether to go onto binders than might be a bit more tolerable, perhaps the Bentonite. But the Charcoal is supposedly good for more types of mycotoxins... I've also ordered some very expensive Fibre that Nathan says most of his sensitive patients can tolerate, might give that a go. For now I think I'll probably just plug away at the Charcoal but this has been intense for only having taken 4 capsules total.