Rufous McKinney
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I didn't actually, but my husband would buy a whole gallon of aloe vera juice at Trader Joes and I can't drink that kind of quantity so I'd not open the gallon. I just want a small bottle of juice.
Microbiome - Butyrate - Inflammation
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probably a reference to the benefits associated with better alignment between our body's circadian rhythms and the light dark cycles of the world we live in. for example - night shift workers have much higher all cause mortality due to their bodies being at odds with this naturally adapted cycle.
this principle is often translated into a kind of shorthand that says - the best sleep is the sleep you get before 12midnight
Which used to be true for me. Now I find my sleep quality is variable, at least according to Garmin. During crashes, sometimes my Battery won't increase all night long, but then will start climbing at 8am if I can remain relaxed in bed. Very weird.
i think sleep trackers typically use some kind of weighted algorithm to calculate sleep quality
typically REM sleep Hrs are given a high weighting - as are Deep sleep Hrs - whereas light sleep is given a v low weighting
unfortunately wrist based light sensor type devices like fitbit etc are not very good at differentiating between light sleep REM and awake by lying fairly still -
mine mixes these up all the time
i don't know how the Garmin works- but if similar it could be that it has interpreted relaxed but awake in the morning after waking as REM sleep and hence bumped up is rating for how well it thinks "your battery" has charged
typically REM sleep Hrs are given a high weighting - as are Deep sleep Hrs - whereas light sleep is given a v low weighting
unfortunately wrist based light sensor type devices like fitbit etc are not very good at differentiating between light sleep REM and awake by lying fairly still -
mine mixes these up all the time
i don't know how the Garmin works- but if similar it could be that it has interpreted relaxed but awake in the morning after waking as REM sleep and hence bumped up is rating for how well it thinks "your battery" has charged
I am posting an update on my experience with butyrate.
1. I have noticed some improvement, but I think may be too early to tell. For those new, the idea is that butyrate is important for a number of factors in the intestinal barrier.
2. I took regular butyrate some time ago and switched to the newer formulation and I chose ProButyrate from Tesseract. I am currently halfway through the bottle which is abt 60 caps. Important: I have read that butyrate supplementation may take some time for effect, so I will continue.
3. I use other barrier supports such as collagen peptides with rich polyphenol spices (turmeric, paprika etc.) and I use AvoVida from Swanson. This is a product that is used for arthritis and has worked well for that purpose and notice it helps with the GI tract. AvoVida (aka AvoSoy) has stood the test of time for myself and others.
4. I have used a wheatgrass combination from Amazing Grass that also contains spirulina, kale and moringa. Studies have shown that wheatgrass and spirulina can help support barrier function. I bought a small pack for less than $10 that should last for 30 days or more. Cheap enough for experimentation.
5. My diet has not been optimal, and I still see some improvement, so I think something is working.
I have recently ceased eating heavy foods 6 hours before bedtime and have practiced intermittent fasting for several years (not eating for abt 12 hours from going to bed.
6. I work on the liver/gallbladder stagnation which seems to help. This axis plays a key role in digestion.
The process could be a lengthy conversation, so I will answer any questions if anyone is interested. I have done this approach multiple times in the past and always reap great rewards with it.
1. I have noticed some improvement, but I think may be too early to tell. For those new, the idea is that butyrate is important for a number of factors in the intestinal barrier.
2. I took regular butyrate some time ago and switched to the newer formulation and I chose ProButyrate from Tesseract. I am currently halfway through the bottle which is abt 60 caps. Important: I have read that butyrate supplementation may take some time for effect, so I will continue.
3. I use other barrier supports such as collagen peptides with rich polyphenol spices (turmeric, paprika etc.) and I use AvoVida from Swanson. This is a product that is used for arthritis and has worked well for that purpose and notice it helps with the GI tract. AvoVida (aka AvoSoy) has stood the test of time for myself and others.
4. I have used a wheatgrass combination from Amazing Grass that also contains spirulina, kale and moringa. Studies have shown that wheatgrass and spirulina can help support barrier function. I bought a small pack for less than $10 that should last for 30 days or more. Cheap enough for experimentation.
5. My diet has not been optimal, and I still see some improvement, so I think something is working.
I have recently ceased eating heavy foods 6 hours before bedtime and have practiced intermittent fasting for several years (not eating for abt 12 hours from going to bed.
6. I work on the liver/gallbladder stagnation which seems to help. This axis plays a key role in digestion.
The process could be a lengthy conversation, so I will answer any questions if anyone is interested. I have done this approach multiple times in the past and always reap great rewards with it.
my infection caused gall bladder disease and gall stones - due to all the junk my liver was having to deal with
i ended up in the ER with excruciating 10/10 nauseating pain - they thought initially it was a heart attack - but it was a gall bladder attack
the doctors wanted to operate and remove it - i tried to get a second opinion from a non surgical gastroenterologist - but these seems to be a very rare beast - so i just got another plumbing specialist who knew nothing about the cause and was just in his routine of whipping them out and on to the next one.
( when all you have is a hammer - everything looks like a nail!)
i was convinced nature didn't give us organs that didn't have a purpose - and sceptical about "that you can live normally without" and i wanted to hang on to mine and avoid surgery of possible
after a lot of reading - i did a series of liver flushes according to the olive oil, epsom salts and grapefruit juice approach - it sounded hokey -rooted in eastern European folk medicine apparently - and i was super sceptical - but also highly motivated - and to my surprise - after a few rounds i produced a hard whitish stone that fizzed in vinegar ( calcified ) and was 100% not anything i had eaten.
i did a few more to be sure - but my symptoms resolved and whereas before easting even a single egg would cause a gall bladder attach ( anything over 5-7g of fat causes the gall bladder to contract - if its blocked you know about it - its like someone has attached a foot pump to your internal organs and is pumping away mercilessly!! ) - i now eat a ketogenic diet - eggs every day and lots of fat in every meal
you may have come across it already - but in case not it -= its not pleasant - but its pain free and it absolutely works
in terms of the mechanism - one of the longest serving LLMD's did a study in partnership with a surgeon - a case report series of 10 or 20 case of people with chronic bacterial infections who all had gall bladder disease as a result - he believed the root cause is toxins and free radicals caused by the infection and it associated inflammation, overwhelm the liver and end up in the bile where they damage the gall bladder and cause gall stones.
I strongly believe in this and have seen it firsthand. Thanks for sharing that information, it is golden.
The Chinese believe that the liver is the "heart" of the body and stipulate that Western society suffers with Liver Stagnation (there are a number of other liver patterns (diagnoses) that the Chinese use, but stagnation is what hit the mark for me).
I think one of the primary considerations is glutathione (GSH). Gsh has dual purposes, the first being a key molecule in immune function and the second in liver support via serving as an intracellular antioxidant. As you suggest, infection is the primary driver of lots of issues including the consumption of glutathione. Nature has set it up that infection control is the primary action.
With infection control then glutathione reserves are used up which leaves low levels. The liver then becomes congested due to low glutathione levels. Of course, there are other pathways that the liver uses to detoxify including sulfation and methylation pathways.
I tried the method you described and for me, it was not optimal, but I know others who have benefited from it. I went another direction which included sulfur amino acids, milk thistle blends, choline and acupressure points using a red laser pen.
Lol - no i wouldn't call it optimal from the point of view of the experience - straining ones own excrement through a colander etc
but when the alternative was life altering surgery - i was over the moon!
however, even after the gall bladder issue was resolved i tried supplementing with MSM, NAC and Glycine - milk thistle etc - and did an OAT test that measures glutathione and other anti-oxidant markers ( quite useful) - all the anti-oxidant markers were still near undetectable levels - as was Vitamin C ( used to recycle glutathione ) - despite taking 2g a day!
chronic infections definitely severely deplete glutathione and all the other antioxidants in the antioxidant pyramid/cascade - they likely also cause damage to the mitochondria which in turn impairs their ability to run properly and causes them to "burn fuel inefficiently" creating more free radicals - which helps re-enforce the cycle of more oxidative stress, more damage, more glutathione deficit etc. -
its why chronic infections are fatiguing - energy production gets hammered.
but when the alternative was life altering surgery - i was over the moon!
however, even after the gall bladder issue was resolved i tried supplementing with MSM, NAC and Glycine - milk thistle etc - and did an OAT test that measures glutathione and other anti-oxidant markers ( quite useful) - all the anti-oxidant markers were still near undetectable levels - as was Vitamin C ( used to recycle glutathione ) - despite taking 2g a day!
chronic infections definitely severely deplete glutathione and all the other antioxidants in the antioxidant pyramid/cascade - they likely also cause damage to the mitochondria which in turn impairs their ability to run properly and causes them to "burn fuel inefficiently" creating more free radicals - which helps re-enforce the cycle of more oxidative stress, more damage, more glutathione deficit etc. -
its why chronic infections are fatiguing - energy production gets hammered.
almost
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I've been investigating this pathway myself for a while, due to data from my NutrEval that I was low on just about everything, especially glutathione, suggesting malabsorption of some kind, especially fats, which is evident with steatorrhea. I even recently had a couple episodes of sharp, sudden biliary colic. Nothing really resolved the fat issue, despite trying many things.
I had all sorts of tests done; all that was discovered was a hyperkinetic gallbladder. This is an uncommon finding, such that medicine doesn't really know if it is problem.
In any case, I've been experimenting with high dose Vitamin C to treat some possible latent infections. I'm titrating up to my bowel tolerance dose. I hit 15g the day before yesterday, and the steatorrhea just disappeared. I had read tangentally that it can help with fat utilization, but wasn't looking for it or expecting that. Whether it was clearing something out of the small intestine (it does treat SIBO) or affecting something else, who knows, but something changed for the better.
I found last fall that larger does, 2g-3g a day, fixed my ferritin/iron issue. I'm going to recheck glutathione in a few months to see if that improves. Can't hurt I believe, as my doc at the time said my level was one of the lowest he'd ever seen.
I had all sorts of tests done; all that was discovered was a hyperkinetic gallbladder. This is an uncommon finding, such that medicine doesn't really know if it is problem.
In any case, I've been experimenting with high dose Vitamin C to treat some possible latent infections. I'm titrating up to my bowel tolerance dose. I hit 15g the day before yesterday, and the steatorrhea just disappeared. I had read tangentally that it can help with fat utilization, but wasn't looking for it or expecting that. Whether it was clearing something out of the small intestine (it does treat SIBO) or affecting something else, who knows, but something changed for the better.
I found last fall that larger does, 2g-3g a day, fixed my ferritin/iron issue. I'm going to recheck glutathione in a few months to see if that improves. Can't hurt I believe, as my doc at the time said my level was one of the lowest he'd ever seen.
@almost If you try glutathione, best to use Liposomal Glutathione. It was the only form that was effective. I would note that using the recommended does of 1 tsp was troublesome for me, I cut it down to 8 drops under the tongue then built up.
As you know, glutathione is a potent detoxifier and with prolonged infections, glutathione levels become low as @Garz suggests. With lower glutathione, then toxins are able to accumulate. So, when using the 1 tsp., this becomes quite a powerful dose, my body was not equipped to deal with the push out, hence the reduction of the doses.
As mentioned, antioxidants are really a network which means they assist each other.
As you know, glutathione is a potent detoxifier and with prolonged infections, glutathione levels become low as @Garz suggests. With lower glutathione, then toxins are able to accumulate. So, when using the 1 tsp., this becomes quite a powerful dose, my body was not equipped to deal with the push out, hence the reduction of the doses.
As mentioned, antioxidants are really a network which means they assist each other.
Update:
I see some continual positive improvements that I attribute to the butyrate. The IBS is slowly going away, less inflammation.
I have changed my Vitamin C to sodium ascorbate the reason being Vitamin C is on the acidic side which I believe irritates the gut. I create sodium ascorbate by adding Quali C to baking soda which according to sources, makes the pH around 7.0 from 3.0 of Vitamin C.
I am using some other supplements which is likely helping as well but would list the butyrate as the primary mover.
I see some continual positive improvements that I attribute to the butyrate. The IBS is slowly going away, less inflammation.
I have changed my Vitamin C to sodium ascorbate the reason being Vitamin C is on the acidic side which I believe irritates the gut. I create sodium ascorbate by adding Quali C to baking soda which according to sources, makes the pH around 7.0 from 3.0 of Vitamin C.
I am using some other supplements which is likely helping as well but would list the butyrate as the primary mover.
datadragon
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Zinc is also a glutathione cofactor. Zinc deficiency is detrimental to the metabolism of glutathione and negatively affects glutathione concentrations in many types of cells, especially in red blood cells. Zinc influences the expression of the enzyme glutamate-cysteine ligase (GCL), the first enzyme that initiates the formation of a glutathione molecule by joining glutamate and cysteine. Thus, zinc plays a significant role in the metabolism of glutathione.
B6 also requires zinc and would normally help convert homocysteine toward glutathione production as well. Zinc is a cofactor there as well to convert B6 to active form (P5P) and for the enzyme that helps B6 get into the cell. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-b6-production-utilization.57030/post-2455963
A zinc-dependent enzyme is needed for the metabolism of folate (folic acid). Folate is a glutathione cofactor that directs cysteine towards glutathione production rather than homocysteine production. Folate is also necessary for amino acid metabolism and protein synthesis, both being important aspects in glutathione metabolism. As part of the copper-zinc superoxide dismutase (SOD), zinc is essential as our first line of defense against oxidation.
Glutathione protects vitamin B12 from depletion by xenobiotics and superoxide. B12 reacts with superoxide when glutathione is depleted (which can happen after inflammation/infection and the lowering of zinc levels also) which would further drain the B12. That seems appropriate as the body is trying to shift into an inflammatory state like a see-saw. In other words b12 kind of says 'hold my beer' when glutathione goes down and takes the hit in its place to try to help, but gets depleted in the process.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...elp-me-so-much-momentarily.89782/post-2438405
Sufficient zinc is required to maintain the proper concentration of vitamin E in the blood. Vitamin E is a vital glutathione cofactor that assists glutathione in its antioxidant action. Vitamin E is also a part of the important antioxidant recycling system that involves glutathione, vitamin C and alpha lipoic acid. Glutathione concentrations depend greatly on the efficiency of this cycle. Thus, zinc participates in this process, too.
S-Acetyl L-Glutathione is a higher bio-available glutathione variant for oral absorption. Unfortunately, most Glutathione supplements have low bioavailability as you mentioned, as the molecule breaks down rapidly after oral ingestion from what I've read also. That is why supplements such as the proimmune are mostly the building blocks and selenium. S-Acetyl L-Glutathione however is an altered form with an attached acetyl function group. This greatly improves its ability to remain intact in the gut and allows a greater concentration to be absorbed into the bloodstream where it can take effect.
Vitamin A and Butyrate also depend heavily on zinc which you seem to have also missed.
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Update: I have now on my second bottle of butyrate and would like to share my findings.
1. I think it takes some time for uptake.
2. I noticed improvement in my neurological functions. Brain fog, irritability, concentration all improved. My belief is that since butyrate improves barrier function, then the barrier function in the brain will be improved. (There are substantial findings in medical literature that the blood brain barrier has the same tight junction proteins as the gut).
3. My gut function did improve, though it appears that there are other nutrients that help with the tight junction proteins such as glycine and proline. I received quite a bit of help (prior to butyrate supplementation) with using simple bone broth which contains these 2 amino acids. I mixed a spice mix with the bone broth (turmeric, Ceylon cinnamon, paprika etc.).
4. I added free form glycine and started low at about 500mg per day and stepped up. There is some indication that using too much glycine at the beginning could cause problems. I have experimented with creatine which is about every 3rd day.
5. It is important to make sure to take the adequate nutrients that support protein assembly, for instance minerals and vitamin co-factors. All proteins need these to be assembled.
1. I think it takes some time for uptake.
2. I noticed improvement in my neurological functions. Brain fog, irritability, concentration all improved. My belief is that since butyrate improves barrier function, then the barrier function in the brain will be improved. (There are substantial findings in medical literature that the blood brain barrier has the same tight junction proteins as the gut).
3. My gut function did improve, though it appears that there are other nutrients that help with the tight junction proteins such as glycine and proline. I received quite a bit of help (prior to butyrate supplementation) with using simple bone broth which contains these 2 amino acids. I mixed a spice mix with the bone broth (turmeric, Ceylon cinnamon, paprika etc.).
4. I added free form glycine and started low at about 500mg per day and stepped up. There is some indication that using too much glycine at the beginning could cause problems. I have experimented with creatine which is about every 3rd day.
5. It is important to make sure to take the adequate nutrients that support protein assembly, for instance minerals and vitamin co-factors. All proteins need these to be assembled.
is this sodium butyrate you are talking about?
I did Ecological Formulas sodium then switched to formulas similar to Gundry's then switched to Tesseract. The last one seemed to work best. I am also finding glycine to be helpful and some creatine. These all support tight junction proteins and that seems to be the magic target. I can elaborate on specifics if you like 
i still can't figure out what it is you are taking. "Ecological Formulas sodium" sounds like it is some kind of salt. just "butyrate" leads me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid and i don't think that's what you are taking. i know people with me-cfs experiment with sodium butyrate so i thought that's what you're taking!? like what does it say on the bottle?
Sorry for not clarifying, the links below show the product (Ecological is Calcium and magnesium, not sodium btw). This is the order in which I took.
Ecological Formulas
https://amzn.to/3xTNFHP
Tributyrin (supposed to be better than butyrate)
https://amzn.to/3y29SU6
(note that Tributyrin is a licensed product meaning companies will put their label on this formula but the same ingredient which is Tributyrin. Gundry's product is the same as corebiome etc. Some minor differences may exist).
Tesseract Butyrate (currently taking)
https://amzn.to/3zPpkTY
Let me know if you have more questions.
Ecological Formulas
https://amzn.to/3xTNFHP
Tributyrin (supposed to be better than butyrate)
https://amzn.to/3y29SU6
(note that Tributyrin is a licensed product meaning companies will put their label on this formula but the same ingredient which is Tributyrin. Gundry's product is the same as corebiome etc. Some minor differences may exist).
Tesseract Butyrate (currently taking)
https://amzn.to/3zPpkTY
Let me know if you have more questions.
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I'm currently using curcumin for my gut issues that got particularly bad after trying several meds for my chronic headaches (worst of all indomethacin). It definitely helps, of course not as fast as I would like.
Curcumin might be of interest here as" "oral curcumin was able to remarkably shift the ratio between beneficial and harmful bacteria in gut microbiota community in favor of beneficial bacteria strains ... and butyrate-producing bacteria, and reduces the abundance of the pathogenic ones ... often associated to the onset of systemic diseases"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7551052/
I've tried it in the past to no avail, but now gave it another try using a high quality inactive variety as reccommended by William Davis (Super Gut). He argued that for the gut you don't want your curcumin to be absorbed as it should remain in the gut as long as possible. Im using Jarrow Curcumin 95.
One of the additional benefits is that I noticed my brain inflammation go down and am now able to go without daily B12 to prevent migraine attacks not sure how this works).
All that said I don't really feel any better just notice some improvements. I have taken them for five weeks. Figuring out if best taken two or three a day.
Curcumin might be of interest here as" "oral curcumin was able to remarkably shift the ratio between beneficial and harmful bacteria in gut microbiota community in favor of beneficial bacteria strains ... and butyrate-producing bacteria, and reduces the abundance of the pathogenic ones ... often associated to the onset of systemic diseases"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7551052/
I've tried it in the past to no avail, but now gave it another try using a high quality inactive variety as reccommended by William Davis (Super Gut). He argued that for the gut you don't want your curcumin to be absorbed as it should remain in the gut as long as possible. Im using Jarrow Curcumin 95.
One of the additional benefits is that I noticed my brain inflammation go down and am now able to go without daily B12 to prevent migraine attacks not sure how this works).
All that said I don't really feel any better just notice some improvements. I have taken them for five weeks. Figuring out if best taken two or three a day.
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@Byles Thanks for posting and the report, very helpful. If I may add that there is substantial research on the role of polyphenols in the gut environment, they can definitely impact the microbiota. I have seen good results with curcumin as well as peppermint, ginger and Ceylon cinnamon (and I use others).
The microbiome can change with many things and as you suggest, prescriptions can alter it. But certain species of organisms utilize different compounds to grow or die. For instance, I used a popular drink that is supposed to encourage growth in the gut, but it had an adverse effect on me. Likely, the bad bacteria liked that drink as well. Needless to say, I stopped that drink.
Sleepytime tea works well, likely the chamomile and peppermint. I judge good and bad based on the outcome of my bowel movements. Puffy or loose means inflammation and of course, I try to match dietary or supplements to those outcomes. Hope that helps! Keep us posted.
The microbiome can change with many things and as you suggest, prescriptions can alter it. But certain species of organisms utilize different compounds to grow or die. For instance, I used a popular drink that is supposed to encourage growth in the gut, but it had an adverse effect on me. Likely, the bad bacteria liked that drink as well
. Needless to say, I stopped that drink. Sleepytime tea works well, likely the chamomile and peppermint. I judge good and bad based on the outcome of my bowel movements. Puffy or loose means inflammation and of course, I try to match dietary or supplements to those outcomes. Hope that helps! Keep us posted.
@Byles I should mention that Kefir seems to be the best probiotic. I mention this because I tried a multitude of probiotics which for me, were a waste of money. In fact, I think that probiotics in general can aggravate the microbiome. I mention this since there is a wide variety of species in the gut that like to live in harmony. Pushing one species (probiotics) or a class of organism can upset the balance. Again, this is not a hard and fast rule, just an observation.
Prebiotics is the newer thing, and this perhaps makes more sense but as mentioned in the prior post, some of those prebiotics can help the good guys but may stimulate growth of bad guys. It really becomes an operation of trial and error and again, I use the condition of the stools to make judgements.
Prebiotics is the newer thing, and this perhaps makes more sense but as mentioned in the prior post, some of those prebiotics can help the good guys but may stimulate growth of bad guys. It really becomes an operation of trial and error and again, I use the condition of the stools to make judgements.