Methylene Blue -- The "Perfect Supplement" For ME/CFS (?)

Nord Wolf

Nord Wolf

The Northman
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@Wayne, all the stuff from the two attempts with MB have long passed now. I went to an allergy center before the end of last year and they were willing to test the MB with skin pricks... and wouldn't you know, I was found allergic to it. Makes sense...

Vibration, yes my wife and I have studied vibration therapies quite a bit over many years. We use various tunning forks regularly, for instance. We also practice deep throat vibration with humming which stimulates the vagus nerve functions. Some methods work and others not so much we have found. But that is vibration... it needs to be the precise frequency for the exact purpose or it won't be effective. Just like western music. All western instruments are slightly off key because they were all aligned with the piano, which isn't a pure overtone frequency, and so it is said that western music cannot be truly healing to the body for that reason. Jill Purce talks a great deal on this. Quite fascinating really.
 
L

lenora

Senior Member
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5,049
Hi Wolf.....It's good to see you back on here.

I forget (yes, I've reached that point), but have you had trouble sleeping? Your wife? If so, has anything helped? Maybe even vibration therapy would. I'm sick of this all-night non-sleep problem. Just not good and I don't like the way I'm feeling.

I hope the two of you are doing better than last winter. Take care of yourselves. Yours, Lenora
 
Nord Wolf

Nord Wolf

The Northman
Messages
681
Location
New England
lenora said:
Hi Wolf.....It's good to see you back on here.

I forget (yes, I've reached that point), but have you had trouble sleeping? Your wife? If so, has anything helped? Maybe even vibration therapy would. I'm sick of this all-night non-sleep problem. Just not good and I don't like the way I'm feeling.

I hope the two of you are doing better than last winter. Take care of yourselves. Yours, Lenora
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Hey Lenora,

We are doing as best as we are able right now. I had a severe full body inflammation flare up 8 days ago that is only now starting to subside. Came out of nowhere and created full body agonizing pain 24/7. Couldn’t sleep, couldn’t sit or lay still… miserable. I have a few theories as to what caused it, but they are only speculation. Today is the first day since it started where I can sit in somewhat comfort and concentrate fully beyond the pain. I see that as a positive sign.

Sleep, yes, my wife with her Parkinson’s has sleep issues, and mine come and go depending upon what my dysautonomia and neurotransmitter issue are doing. A few things that help us (none are perfect and the body shifts around so we find shifting protocols necessary as well):

  • PS 200
  • Melatonin – 3 mg
  • GABA – up to 600 mg
  • never take melatonin or GABA with 5-HTP
  • 5-HTP – 200 mg
  • L-Tyrosine – 500 mg
  • Salt water before bed
  • Rub soles of feet with warm oil before bed
  • Rub the kidneys with warm hands before bed
  • Herb tea before bed; chamomile, skullcap, passionflower, valerian, etc., etc.
  • Wearing socks to bed helps cool the core body temp faster promoting sleep
  • Sleeping in a cool room
  • Elevating the head of the bed slightly
  • Inhaling lavender essential oil before bed – even just nearby on a cotton ball
  • Sometimes listening to soft music 30 minutes before bed
  • Sometimes reading 30 minutes before bed
  • Dimming the lights 30 minutes before going to bed
  • Sometimes a tablespoon of raw honey just before bed works great
  • Once in bed try visualizations; taking a walk, going for a drive, seeing a show, painting a picture, doing yardwork, etc. – it helps to focus the mind and bring it into deeper focus and eventually sleep
Those are some of the things that help us. There are others and the above need to be rotated for us so the body doesn’t get too familiar with the method to the point of ignoring it.
 
L

lenora

Senior Member
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5,049
I'm beginning to think that being hit over the head with a mallet may be the only thing I haven't tried.
I have found that lower lights before sleep can help, but nothing for long....as you said. Thanks, Yours, P.
 
C

cporro

Messages
39
after reading/skimming this whole thread i'm like...it's all over the place. so many confounders. one issue i've found is that i don't know what triggers me and makes me feel better or worse. so when you try something new how can you be sure your reaction good or bad is due to this thing? you'd have to try it several times and then figure the odds of that happening. all i know to do is wait until i'm feeling somewhat normal. then try and live a somewhat normal life. until then it's naps and not much else.
 
Mary

Mary

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Nord Wolf said:
never take melatonin or GABA with 5-HTP
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@Nord Wolf - Why not? I've taken 5-htp with melatonin and with l-theanine (which helps produce GABA) for many years with no problem. I know that 5-htp helps the brain produce serotonin and one would need to be careful if combining it with an SSRI or something similar to avoid serotonin syndrome which can be dangerous.
 
Mary

Mary

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lenora said:
I'm beginning to think that being hit over the head with a mallet may be the only thing I haven't tried.
I have found that lower lights before sleep can help, but nothing for long....as you said. Thanks, Yours, P.
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@lenora - I feel for you, truly! Sleep deprivation is used as torture for a very good reason.

did you ever get your cortisol levels checked with an adrenal stress index test, such as this one by Life Extension: https://www.lifeextension.com/lab-testing/itemlc100070/adrenal-stress-profile-saliva

You don't need a doctor's order to get the test. Years ago I had this testing done and it showed that my cortisol was very high at night, when it's supposed to be low, which caused severe insomnia which nothing would touch. I was told to take Seriphos which worked great to bring my levels down, and I started sleeping better almost immediately. The Seriphos worked best when I took it in the morning - the morning dose calmed me during the day, and helped with sleep at night. I had to experiment/titrate up to find an effective dose. Then after several weeks I found myself getting more tired and realized was going too low, so I titrated down, and I still take it off and on, especially during times of greater stress.

Also at various times too much calcium and then too little calcium have caused insomnia for me. Hair analysis tests showed this and when I adjusted my dose up or down as indicated, my sleep improved.

Also, are you on thyroid medication? I'm hypothyroid and take desiccated thyroid (prescription) but occasionally I seem to flip and become a bit hyperthyroid, which again causes bad insomnia.

I have a lot of things I have to keep track of to keep sleeping . . .
 
Wayne

Wayne

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Ashland, Oregon
Mary said:
I'm hypothyroid and take desiccated thyroid (prescription) but occasionally I seem to flip and become a bit hyperthyroid, which again causes bad insomnia.
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Hi @Mary -- I'd never heard anything like this before. I take Armour Thyroid for hypothyroidism, and I sometimes wonder if I'm taking too much, though my TSH levels stay pretty steady. Is it possible my thyroid function can flip for a day or more, and then revert back to "baseline"? I'd be interested in anything more you might be able to add to your experience(s). -- Thanks so much!
 
Mary

Mary

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Wayne said:
Hi @Mary -- I'd never heard anything like this before. I take Armour Thyroid for hypothyroidism, and I sometimes wonder if I'm taking too much, though my TSH levels stay pretty steady. Is it possible my thyroid function can flip for a day or more, and then revert back to "baseline"? I'd be interested in anything more you might be able to add to your experience(s). -- Thanks so much!
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Hi @Wayne - I was going to send you a PM as I did not want to derail this thread but just realized it's your thread :rolleyes: so will answer you here -

Ok - my conclusions about my thyroid becoming a bit hyper, switching as it were, are based on empirical experience and not lab work for reasons I'll explain. As I mentioned above, several different things cause insomnia for me, and I neglected to mention one of the biggest culprits, MSG at dinner in any of its iterations (https://www.truthinlabeling.org/names.html)

So when I am hit with a seemingly inexplicable inability to sleep, apparently out of the blue, I have to run through all the things I listed above. Did I eat the wrong thing, etc. Is the insomnia the first half of the night or the second half, or both - these can all indicate different things. Is my cortisol high again (which happens), etc.

About 2-1/2 years ago I was hit with a very severe insomnia that nothing would touch and was not typical for any of the above things - I was awake almost the entire night. Also, I was getting hot at night (not a hot flash), lost some hair, and even lost a few pounds and so my thyroid came to mind. I did not want to wait to make an appointment with my doctor, then get an order for lab work, etc. and maybe take 2 weeks altogether to see what my thyroid was like - the insomnia was too bad, I could not have handled 2 weeks of it. So I went on the assumption that somehow my thyroid had switched to hyper - read about it and saw there wasn't much mainstream medicine could safely do for something like this - I won't go into detail here. so I looked up herbs etc that might help. I found Thyroid Calming by HerbPharm which seems to be a very good product, and also plain lemon balm can help a little. I think I stopped my thyroid med altogether for several days, started the Thyroid Calming and sure enough, I started sleeping better. After several days I restarted my thyroid med.

One other surprising thing I found that might help was l-carnitine, which is an antagonist of thyroid hormone action: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15591013/ So I started taking l-carnitine too, which I had taken in the past.

It's a guessing game doing this on my own but I can't run to the doctor each time I get bad insomnia. They can't help. Overall I still do need my thyroid med and I do get blood work done. The last time it was checked was a few months ago, my TSH was okay. But last week out of the blue I had a very bad night - awake basically the entire night. It's hard to think when that happens. I thought it might have to do wtih my calcium (it's complicated) and the next night got 2 hours. Finally I think the 3rd night I thought of my thyroid and started the Thyroid Calming tincture, etc. and finally started to sleep again, though it's been a rocky road to get there. It's insane - it sometimes seems my body wants to do whatever it can to NOT sleep. And the ironic part was I'd had a very good night's sleep just one or 2 nights before I was suddenly awake all night. Go figure!

I hope this explains what I do - I know it's not ideal. Ideally I could get needed blood work within a day. Ideally doctors would be knowledgeable about all the variables involved with insomnia. But none of that is true. Ideally doctors would know how to calm down an overactive thyroid without hitting it with radiation etc. But they don't.

What makes you think you might be taking too much Armour thyroid? Also, fwiw, I'm now taking 60 mg of NP thyroid (very similar to Armour). Originally when I first started taking Armour some 20+ years ago, I was on 120 mg, so over the years my dose has gradually decreased. It is best to take the lowest necessary dose.
 
Wayne

Wayne

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Ashland, Oregon
Hi @Mary -- Thanks for all the good information. I very much appreciate your replies like the above, as I'm as interested in how you go about "putting on your Sherlock Holmes hat" and start tracking things down, as I am about some of the good information you share--perhaps even more so.

Mary said:
It's insane - it sometimes seems my body wants to do whatever it can to NOT sleep. And the ironic part was I'd had a very good night's sleep just one or 2 nights before I was suddenly awake all night. Go figure!
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About a year ago I ran across some information about how castor oil applied to the neck has been shown to affect thyroid function, and in some cases bring the thyroid back to normal functioning. I wrote a bit about that in this THIS POST.

I've also been watching a fair number of videos by Ross Hauser at Caring Wellness in Florida, who does a lot of work with CCI, using prolotherapy. In some of his videos, he goes into how CCI can affect circulation (and often does) in just about any area in the neck and head area.

Some of the information he shares makes me think that if castor oil can stimulate lymphatic drainage and improve thyroid function, then improving blood circulation in the thyroid area could also do the same.

I feel I'm dealing every day with CCI. Some of the effects of CCI can seem to change "on a dime", which could explain why I have so many different experiences that, like your thyroid function, seem to change so quickly and so often. I think one of these effects is my thyroid all of a sudden working better for a period of time, before maybe reverting back to my normal baseline.
 
Mary

Mary

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Hi @Wayne - thanks for the info about castor oil and the thyroid - I may give that a try! I have read that if one applies castor oil to one's belly button, it can help with sleep. I will do anything for sleep so have been doing that as well . . . I don't know if it's helping but it's not hurting! :sluggish:

One other thing I didn't mention was muscle testing, which I use whenever possible as an adjunct to whatever I am dealing with or experimenting with -

I don't think I have CCI but it does sound like it could be causing things to change for you on a dime - I wonder if a good chiropractor or osteopath would be able to help sort this out for you? Just a thought -
 
Nord Wolf

Nord Wolf

The Northman
Messages
681
Location
New England
Mary said:
@Nord Wolf - Why not? I've taken 5-htp with melatonin and with l-theanine (which helps produce GABA) for many years with no problem. I know that 5-htp helps the brain produce serotonin and one would need to be careful if combining it with an SSRI or something similar to avoid serotonin syndrome which can be dangerous.
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My doctors told me a while back that due to certain medication and supplement combinations I'm taking, it wasn't a good idea. Of course, at this time I can't recall what the exact combo is... 🤔
Wayne said:
I take Armour Thyroid for hypothyroidism, and I sometimes wonder if I'm taking too much, though my TSH levels stay pretty steady. Is it possible my thyroid function can flip for a day or more, and then revert back to "baseline"?
Click to expand...
My dose of Levothyroxine was boosted in November from 75 mcg to 100 mcg. I was also put on 25 mcg of Cytomel at the same time, which is an active form of T3 and more potent than Levo. Also, I was started on MedCaps T3, all because my hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's grew far worse than it had been. It took a few months, but recently I've been noticing a marked increase in overall energy and a decrease in levels of and amounts of PEM crashes. I have moved to taking all of the above, but leapfrogging the Levo dose to 75 mcg one day and 100 mcg the next. My recent TSH number was very low, but my T4 number was also very low. The T3 and Free T3 were looking good though. So, my doc wants to keep me on this regime for now and test again in May. My guess is we will drop the dose again for the warm season and then probably increase it once autumn returns. The severe thyroid drop in autumn and winter is a pattern with me.
Wayne said:
About a year ago I ran across some information about how castor oil applied to the neck has been shown to affect thyroid function, and in some cases bring the thyroid back to normal functioning.
Click to expand...
I never found the castor oil to return my thyroid to normal, but it can help alleviate sore throat and swelling during Hashimoto's flare ups. If you apply before bed be ready for a greasy pillow, face and hair by morning! 😜
 
Wayne

Wayne

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Ashland, Oregon
Nord Wolf said:
An interesting article sent to me by a friend with concerns to Methylene Blue safety and a natural alternative:
https://sayerji.substack.com/p/the-blue-brain-effect-methylene-blues
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Hey @Nord Wolf -- How are you doing? Was pretty shocking to hear about your recent ordeal. Hope you're on the mend, and recovering from it all.

Thanks for posting the above link to the MB article. I have to say, it was concerning to me to see those blue colored brains and internal organs, plus the "cautionary notes" that were in the article.

My wife takes MB, and she's familiar with this author. She's come to the perspective that some of his thoughts and ideas are "pretty out there". So I took the time to review some of the comments, and they have lessened my concerns about MB. It seems the information in the article was not as comprehensive as it should or could have been. Here's a smattering of the comments:

​
The article that he references shows blue brains in people who had extremely high doses of MB for septic shock and severe hospitalizations, with post-mortems shortly after. They were also given other compounds that were not MB but were also included because of the colors of the brain after. The power of MB in the literature is undeniable with very little risk at low doses, less than 1mg/kg per day and orally given. I've used it for years in my patients with a massive amount of benefit, especially when it comes to improving mitochondrial function.​
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Ben​
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You should actually read the publications you cite before you start fear mongering people into buying your products. It's described that the cases received their last dosage between 1 and 5 hours before death. It's to be expected that MB would still be present and make organs appear blue within this time window. Additionally, case 11 demonstrates that the staining is of temporary nature, considering his organs were no longer stained less than 24 hours after application.​

Mar 20Edited​
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This is an incredibly inflammatory and inaccurate article. If you actually read the autopsy results a good six or seven of them were administered methylene blue in the hospital prior to death. When that is done they give quite large amounts and so of course dying right after being given that would show up. Methylene blue is given in the hospital specifically in poisoning cases as it helps detox the body and remove certain toxins and saves peoples lives.​
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There is zero correlation between people taking this as a supplement and dying their organs blue permanently. The others were blue because of other drugs and one was blue for undetermined reasons. I would be happy for any insightful and valuable information that share some potentially dangerous side effects or an optimum outcome from Methylene blue, but everything cited in this article is out of context.​
 
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