Metabolic Trap//Who got worse on l-tryptophan?

Wanja

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I haven’t read this whole thread but my over reaction to 5htp and tryptophan was ameliorated by l-lysine. In no way saying that’s I’ll work fir you as symptoms not so severe but more minor versions. They definitively oppose one another and lysine blocks serotonin receptors. Best of luck.
oh wow, should i try Lysine then?

what were your symptoms and what happened to you?
 

Sophiedw

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My symptoms of low lysine that we’re exacerbated by 5htp and tryptophan were an extreme stress and agitation especially as i fall asleep and stomach problems/pain digestive issues. L lysine is a partial 5htp receptor antagonist so it helps these specific symptoms by blocking the actions of serotonin. I don’t know about metabolic trap though I’m afraid, worth a shot though. Maybe get an amino acid panel if you haven’t had one already. Take care.
 

lenora

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Hello @Wanja.....Look, I know medicine is quite different in Germany, and many people are against benzos for anything, but you have to look at the entire picture.

As a group, anxiety is a big problem for us at some point or another. And yes, there are degrees and degrees of anxiety. You appear to me to be going through some of this right now. Have you told the neurologists exactly how you're feeling?

We can look quite normal to others, while hearing this same tape going over and over again in our minds....not a good tape either. At this point, we need help and even if a psychiatrist is used to confirm the situation it doesn't mean that you're crazy. It means that you suffer from anxiety....and this is finally being acknowledged in different circles worldwide.

So carefully think about exactly how you feel. Write down the feelings, what they are, how they manifest. Are you ever able to shut these things off....are you obssessive? None of us can expect help unless we're totally truthful. Is one of the neurologists more sympathetic than the others? Do you feel more comfortable with him/her? It's possible that your brain chemicals have been totally messed up (as you know) and you'll need some medical help to get out of this.

I suffer from anxiety....it got worse over a period of 35+ years. In the early days I was able to control it myself, but then years later I had to go on non-addictive meds that I took as needed only.

Later I had to move to the big guns and I'm ever so thankful for them. Of course I'll have problems if I ever go off them, but I take low doses and at my age it isn't very likely that I will be taken off. Through all of this, long before I was diagnosed with multiple illnesses (syndromes as they called them) I've been lucky enough to be with the same neurologist. I don't know where I would be without him....but I also have a younger one b/c the first has family illness and may have to leave at anytime.

So work with the doctors as best you can....let them learn how your body reacts, this is so important and is often completely underrated. We're all different. Yours, Lenora.
 
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lenora

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Ok.. My family sees me in that condition tho as i have this severe neurological symptoms and i literally have nothing left of my life atm... I cant enjoy anything anymore. They really want me to try it and improve as was really suicidal for a couple of weeks when it was insane, which it still is but... I dont know if i can wait for 3 more month and let them just watch me being in this state with no help... Sure i can, but it wont be easy.
The problem is that this is a completly new sickness for me, nothing like iwas confronted with the last 6 years. Its so crazy whats going on o dont even know if some of this is still cfs.

@Wanja.....Absolutely no one can tell if a treatment will be good or bad for your particular body. Even doctors want you return frequently if you're having problems, or on an unproven drug.

I know that over the years certain things have helped, while others have been bad for me. I do keep all medical records and that has been a help (rather my husband does). It's very hard to take in information and write it down at the same time, especially when there are so many questions. It's important to have those records, though, and you'll find them very useful as time passes. Where is your family in all of this? Yours, Lenora.
 

Wanja

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Hello @Wanja.....Look, I know medicine is quite different in Germany, and many people are against benzos for anything, but you have to look at the entire picture.

As a group, anxiety is a big problem for us at some point or another. And yes, there are degrees and degrees of anxiety. You appear to me to be going through some of this right now. Have you told the neurologists exactly how you're feeling?

We can look quite normal to others, while hearing this same tape going over and over again in our minds....not a good tape either. At this point, we need help and even if a psychiatrist is used to confirm the situation it doesn't mean that you're crazy. It means that you suffer from anxiety....and this is finally being acknowledged in different circles worldwide.

So carefully think about exactly how you feel. Write down the feelings, what they are, how they manifest. Are you ever able to shut these things off....are you obssessive? None of us can expect help unless we're totally truthful. Is one of the neurologists more sympathetic than the others? Do you feel more comfortable with him/her? It's possible that your brain chemicals have been totally messed up (as you know) and you'll need some medical help to get out of this.

I suffer from anxiety....it got worse over a period of 35+ years. In the early days I was able to control it myself, but then years later I had to go on non-addictive meds that I took as needed only.

Later I had to move to the big guns and I'm ever so thankful for them. Of course I'll have problems if I ever go off them, but I take low doses and at my age it isn't very likely that I will be taken off. Through all of this, long before I was diagnosed with multiple illnesses (syndromes as they called them) I've been lucky enough to be with the same neurologist. I don't know where I would be without him....but I also have a younger one b/c the first has family illness and may have to leave at anytime.

So work with the doctors as best you can....let them learn how your body reacts, this is so important and is often completely underrated. We're all different. Yours, Lenora.
Could be, i am anxious because this whole situation is really bad and disturbing. i dont feel anything really, thats part of the problem. My whole body is shut down. I know i am afraid of what could come or if it stays that way. I am pretty sure that i developed some kind of condition because of all this and the past years, but i am pretty self-reflective and aware... atm i am "obesessive" with finding the reason why all this is happening in my brain, i just wanna get back to normal...
 

lenora

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Yes, anyone of us would want to get back to "normal." Let's think of ways you can shut down your obsessive thinking for a time. Walking...can you walk around the ward, the hallways? Could you even go down for a coffee and sit and watch people while actively tuning out intrusive thoughts?

My guess is that you want to move a lot, so walking could help. Somehow you have to get through this and we can only hope that it doesn't take too much longer.

You're able to sleep, so ask for a Do Not Disturb sign and put it on the door, or just fall asleep on the couch, wherever you happen to be. As for earplugs if you don't have any, although I've always found the ones in our hospitals here to be useless. Think of something calming....somewhere you've been, a person, anything.

There is no point in worrying about how you'll be once you come out of the state. It's not gaining you anything, is it?....except more worry and becoming more obsessive. Suck on hard candies, calming things. You know yourself better than I do....so really think about what helps you. Yours, Lenora.
 
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Sophiedw

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5htp gave me the worst headache/neck ache--almost what I imagine someone experiencing meningitis would experience and Tryptophan set off my IBS badly. I'd had it in remission for years.

This website may explain why: https://badgut.org/information-centre/a-z-digestive-topics/ibs-and-serotonin/

Part of the article says, “My colleagues and I have recently discovered that patients with IBS have a significant decrease in the serotonin transporter, or SERT, in the cells lining the bowel,” said Dr. Gershon. “That means some IBS patients have an inadequate SERT mechanism which causes serotonin to stay around longer, triggering troublesome bowel changes.”
Hey Judy I found that 5htp induced gut changes were blocked by l-lysine. Reliably. You could maybe try it, you may have a lysine deficiency. I had one even though it came out high on my blood plasma amino acid results because since I’ve been taking it no more poorly stomach/pain/lack of appetite/ better liver scores. Cheap supp worth a shot - also an anti viral and anti anxiety so an all round winner for cfs in my opinion. Take care
 

Sophiedw

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Hey Judy I found that 5htp induced gut changes were blocked by l-lysine. Reliably. You could maybe try it, you may have a lysine deficiency. I had one even though it came out high on my blood plasma amino acid results because since I’ve been taking it no more poorly stomach/pain/lack of appetite/ better liver scores. Cheap supp worth a shot - also an anti viral and anti anxiety so an all round winner for cfs in my opinion. Take care
Could not course be some entirely different mechanism in yourself and others. Tryptophan/Serotonin is such a vastly multifaceted beast as we all know.
 

Wanja

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Hey Judy I found that 5htp induced gut changes were blocked by l-lysine. Reliably. You could maybe try it, you may have a lysine deficiency. I had one even though it came out high on my blood plasma amino acid results because since I’ve been taking it no more poorly stomach/pain/lack of appetite/ better liver scores. Cheap supp worth a shot - also an anti viral and anti anxiety so an all round winner for cfs in my opinion. Take care
Hey maybe i should really give it a try... I mean could there be something going wrong taking l-lysine?
 

Sophiedw

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A word of caution with taking single amino acids is that they all oppose one another, so don’t take a large amount and increase general protein intake. Also keep an eye on plasma levels. There’s a cheap (ish) test done by cerascreen that I do every so often if there is an equivalent company in your country :)
 

Wanja

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Hey Judy I found that 5htp induced gut changes were blocked by l-lysine. Reliably. You could maybe try it, you may have a lysine deficiency. I had one even though it came out high on my blood plasma amino acid results because since I’ve been taking it no more poorly stomach/pain/lack of appetite/ better liver scores. Cheap supp worth a shot - also an anti viral and anti anxiety so an all round winner for cfs in my opinion. Take care
I got myself some l-lysine, how much did you take and start of with?
 

Sophiedw

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Hey Wanja, I took a fair bit but my problems don’t seem as extreme as your situation so I wouldn’t want to advise. Maybe just a really small bit of a tablet and build up? Again I can’t inform the situation as I don’t know where you’re at metabolically. I really do wish you the best though x
 

christiankatz

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As i am severe now after taking a 5-HTP supplement (bravo, wanja, well done) and my brain doesnt work properly anymore.

Did anybody know of someone or had the same experience after taking such a supplement?
This is interesting, as I've had such horrible experiences with L-tryptophan and 5htp, and this is the first I've heard of it from anyone else. It never occurred to me that it may have caused permanent damage, though I believe it's possible. It's been too long ago to remember. Whenever I took it, I felt such mental fatigue and depression, so I haven't tried it in years. I'm too terrified of it.
 

Sophiedw

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All I know that in myself, where my issues are only moderate. L lysine did a lot to counteract the bad reactions I got from tryptophan an 5htp - specially terror and gut issues. Also a good brand of phosphatidyl serine. A lot of the brands of phos serine are complete shit. When I found a good one it seemed to smooth out the tryptophan related issues as well 🤷‍♀️ Really hope something helps you wanja. I would start very low and slow in your precarious position. Also a nutrient test if you can afford one becomes a necessity. All the best
 

Wanja

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This is interesting, as I've had such horrible experiences with L-tryptophan and 5htp, and this is the first I've heard of it from anyone else. It never occurred to me that it may have caused permanent damage, though I believe it's possible. It's been too long ago to remember. Whenever I took it, I felt such mental fatigue and depression, so I haven't tried it in years. I'm too terrified of it.
What happened to you?

I really really dont hope it is permanent damage!!
Thats my biggest fear atm, i somehow hope it will get back to normal or at least to a form i can live with. The current state is unbearable
 

christiankatz

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What happened to you?

I really really dont hope it is permanent damage!!
Thats my biggest fear atm, i somehow hope it will get back to normal or at least to a form i can live with. The current state is unbearable
It's been several years ago since I've attempted taking either. The noticeable effects of mental fatigue and depression only lasted a couple of days. I never took it on a regular basis, so these were isolated incidences. The same happens when I use saffron threads and SAMe or any SSRIs. So I've decided serotonin is a bad idea for me. I think you'll be okay. I'm guessing it's not permanent.
 

Sophiedw

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Very little is permanent with tjese illnesses, I speak obviously not for very severe people. I find there is always change personally. I hope you stabilise and find your way back from this. It doesn’t sound like a classic cfs crash to me.
Can I ask exactly what your symptoms were after taking tryptophan or if you’ve already answered then just point to appropriate post. I’m happy you’ve tried lysine, I’ve found all I can do is experiment and wait. And even very bad times for me have not been permenant.
 

Sophiedw

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At the moment I’ve found my way out of a hideous 5 week mainly neurological horror show by changing my brand of phosphatidyl serine. I think this supplement could be a the basis of a lot of my varied neurological symptoms. These illnesses seem so heterogenous though so I’m always wary of offering advice based on my experiencez
 

Wishful

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I really really dont hope it is permanent damage!!
I've worried about somehow triggering permanent problems, but so far I've avoided it. All my negative responses to treatments faded in a day or so. I've had some longer term problems arise, but I've managed to treat those (so far). For me, the fact that we can get temporary remissions means that ME is not permanent degradation.