Metabolic profiling indicates impaired pyruvate dehydrogenase function in myalgic encephalopathy/CFS (Fluge et al., 2016)

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,146
I will start with 10g of Leucine and report back.

The energy boost I got from leucine was only quite mild; useful, but nothing major.



Having read this Fluge and Mella paper about the pyruvate defect, one thing I may look into is getting hold of the new supplement called KetoForce®, which contains beta hydroxybutyrate.

Beta hydroxybutyrate is one of the ketone bodies produced by a ketogenic diet, and thus I think this supplement may get you into ketosis (fat burning using ketone bodies) without necessarily needing to go on a ketogenic diet (these diets can be hard to do). The only problem is that it is pretty expensive.

I suspect that if you can stoke up fat burning on the mitochondria, this may give you larger energy gains than anything you can do with amino acid burning.
 
Last edited:

eljefe19

Senior Member
Messages
483
Hmmmm very interesting my friend. Only thing is, yes, it is expensive. Probably will have to wait a little while before I'm able to afford it. Even after the loading phase, you would still have to take the maintenance dose to stay in Ketosis right? @Hip
 

ash0787

Senior Member
Messages
308
Do fats not use the citric acid cycle ? different metabolic way of creating energy from them ? does it still use mitochondria ?

edit -- ok so it skips the need for PDH, how can we be sure that this supplement will hack the metabolism and force it into a fat usage mode though ?

some people I have noticed do report that routine periodic fasting is the only thing that improves their CFS.
 
Last edited:

Battery Muncher

Senior Member
Messages
620
What does everyone think of the potential treatment options suggested in the paper that @Marco posted above?

Note: the paper focuses on brain injury, but there may be some things we can apply here.

http://www.braincirculation.org/art...=2;issue=2;spage=61;epage=66;aulast=Thibodeau

Antioxidants

Given the critical role of PDH in cerebral energy metabolism and the notion that its reduced activity contributes to ischemic brain injury, interventions that prevent PDH inhibition or that compensate for its impairment have been explored as neuroprotective strategies. Based on data implicating oxidative stress as a cause of PDH inactivation, it is reasonable that antioxidants should provide a beneficial effect. Alpha-LA has been identified as a potent metabolic antioxidant that may serve as an ideal treatment for ischemic injury involving free radical processes. [35],[36],[37],[38] The influence of R-(+)-alpha-LA, the naturally occurring enantiomer of LA, on pyruvate metabolism has been documented in primary cultured hepatocytes isolated from 24 h fasted rats. The results showed enhanced pyruvate oxidation and decreased gluconeogenesis. Of note, these changes were associated with significant increases in the activation state of PDH, which may reflect a return of normal metabolic function conferred by antioxidant therapy. [39]

While exogenous antioxidants may improve mitochondrial resistance to oxidative stress, another promising approach utilizes pharmacologic stimulation of endogenous gene expression to protect against metabolic dysfunction. [40] The transcriptional activating factor Nrf2 regulates expression of many genes encoding mitochondrial antioxidant enzymes, as well as targets of oxidative stress. [41],[42] Of note, Nrf2 has been found to exert control over key mediators of cellular energy metabolism, including pyruvate dehydrogenase lipoamide β and PDK. Stimulation of the Nrf2 pathway by sulforaphane, a molecule with known antioxidative effects that is obtained from cruciferous vegetables, has proven effective in reducing brain infarct volume and increasing expression of the stress-response protein, heme oxygenase-1, in a rat model of focal ischemic stroke. [43] These results, coupled with additional findings of reduced flux through the PDH pathway in Nrf2 knockdown cells, suggest that PDH or its regulators may be of those proteins under Nrf2 influence. [44] The critical role that PDH plays in energy metabolism and its vulnerability to oxidative stress may explain the protective effect that genetic manipulation by Nrf2 pathway activation has upon cerebral ischemic injury.

Combination therapy with ethanol and normobaric oxygen

Dose-dependent neuroprotection by ethanol (EtOH) has been observed in rat models of middle cerebral artery occlusion. [45],[46] EtOH has been found to raise expression levels of PDH and PDP and decrease those of PDK. Other signs of improved oxidative metabolism, including reduced ROS levels, lower ADP/ATP ratios and fewer neurological deficits, accompanied these changes. When these same parameters were assessed in rats treated with EtOH + normobaric oxygen (NBO), it was found that combination therapy conferred a greater therapeutic effect than each agent alone. [17] EtOH's ability to reduce energy demands and to inhibit glucose metabolism more likely accounts for the limited ROS generation detected in EtOH treatment groups. [47],[48] Removal of PDH from ROS-mediated inhibition promotes oxidative metabolism and is, therefore, one of the mechanisms that have been proposed in EtOH-induced neuroprotection. Conversely, NBO has been utilized to counteract ischemia-induced hypoxic conditions. Although NBO has been reported to confer neuroprotective effects during ischemic events when administered in clinical settings, its limited time window for efficacy and minor therapeutic effect limit its potential for clinical application. However, when administered concomitantly, NBO enhances the effects of EtOH, evidenced by a greater attenuation of impaired PDH activity and protein expression, which may reflect further facilitation of aerobic metabolism. [49],[50],[51],[52],[53],[54] While further studies are needed to characterize PDH modulation by EtOH and NBO at the molecular level, their role in stabilizing cerebral energy metabolism makes these agents promising neuroprotectants in ischemic stroke injury.

Dichloroacetate

Dichloroacetate (DCA), a pharmacologic agent that activates PDH by inhibiting PDK, has also revealed significant neuroprotective potential. [55],[56],[57] Administration of DCA has been shown to enhance regional lactate removal and limit the lactic acidosis associated with brain hypoperfusion and metabolic dysregulation. [58],[59],[60],[61] In addition, a proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy study revealed that DCA delivered in high dose or within 2 days of ischemic stroke produced similar reductions in lactate levels. [62] Treatment with DCA appears to be most effective during reperfusion by enhancing the postischemic reactivation of PDH. [63],[64],[65] This effect on PDH activity has been demonstrated in rat and gerbil models of cerebral ischemia, which exhibited a reduction in lactate levels in addition to a restoration of ATP and phosphocreatine levels later on in reperfusion, but displayed no demonstrable effect during the ischemic phase. [57],[66] These findings of reduced lactate production and increased oxidative energy metabolism by DCA administration further implicate PDH impairment in the delayed cerebral energy failure that occurs after ischemic insult. By enhancing activity of the rate-limiting enzyme that links pyruvate production with pyruvate oxidation, DCA promotes oxidative metabolic recovery. Despite early recognition of DCA's selectivity and ease of delivery, clinical studies have raised concern regarding its potential toxicity. [67],[68],[69] This includes a randomized, controlled clinical trial evaluating the efficacy of 25 mg/kg/day DCA in patients with mitochondrial encephalopathy with lactic acidosis and stroke-like episodes that resulted in early termination due to associated peripheral nerve toxicity. [70]

Acetyl-L-carnitine

Acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR) is an endogenous metabolic intermediate which has been shown to be neuroprotective in cerebral ischemia models when administered at supraphysiologic doses. [71],[72],[73],[74] Human and animal studies suggest that ALCAR's neuroprotective effect is derived from its restoration of oxidative energy metabolism. Delivery of ALCAR acetyl groups to the tricarboxylic acid cycle is understood to improve aerobic energy metabolism by providing a fuel supply alternative to pyruvate, allowing for circumvention of the PDH pathway. [75] This hypothesis of metabolically mediated neuroprotection by ALCAR is supported by rat models of global cerebral ischemia. These models exhibit reductions in lactate and inorganic phosphate levels, along with elevations in levels of ATP and creatine-phosphate, [71] consistent with the metabolism of ALCAR acetyl units, and indicative of augmented oxidative cerebral energy production, and diminished anaerobic glycolysis and lactic acidosis. Another proposed mechanism of ALCAR-mediated neuroprotection is by relief of oxidative tissue injury. [76] This effect has been demonstrated in a canine cardiac arrest model by the substance's ability to limit protein carbonyl formation, a marker of oxidative stress, in brain tissue during reperfusion. [77] PDH's critical function in oxidative energy metabolism and its known susceptibility to inactivation by ROS support the role ALCAR may play in attenuating the mitochondrial dysfunction observed during ischemic stroke injury by either preventing PDH inhibition or compensating for its impairment.
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
979
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Do fats not use the citric acid cycle ? different metabolic way of creating energy from them ? does it still use mitochondria ?

edit -- ok so it skips the need for PDH, how can we be sure that this supplement will hack the metabolism and force it into a fat usage mode though ?

some people I have noticed do report that routine periodic fasting is the only thing that improves their CFS.

But ketogenic diets I don't think made massive improvement to mass numbers on PR. So by moving to fat burning metabolism still doesn't get past pyruvate block.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,146
But ketogenic diets I don't think made massive improvement to mass numbers on PR.

As far as I could work out, not a great many ME/CFS patients have actually tried the ketogenic diet. I think the idea of eating just fat and protein-based food all the time is not very attractive, and that's perhaps why not many have attempted the diet. There was a recent thread about a ketogenic diet for ME/CFS here:

Lack of chatter about the Ketogenic Diet

Some people on the thread noted great benefits from a ketogenic diet:
I've been on the ketogenic diet for the last 4-5 weeks and it has, by far been the biggest game changer when it comes to CFS. It has probably tripled / quadrupled my energy (of course, that means a lot less when you start from next to nothing), helped cleared up my brain fog and allowed me to really start tackling CFS. I want to emphasize that in no way has it cured CFS, but nothing else I have done has even come close in terms of results.
Great news! I had a similar experience when I adopted a ketogenic diet about 16 years ago. I started to get reduced brain fog and more energy almost immediately. However the first week of the diet was a bit rough (my theory is that the lower blood sugar levels caused a die-off of bad bacteria).
Prior to starting the diet, I was essentially bed-bound (only able to get up for showers and meals) but was able to return to work part-time on a very limited basis at first.
I've been following a ketogenic diet for 8 weeks and it has been great. I've gone from being unable to walk down the road a few months ago to building up to going to the gym every second day. I have also cut out all fodmaps and autoimmune trigger foods - which leaves me with any kind of meat and mostly above-ground vegetables.
I follow my own version of the ketogenic diet too, and it works well for me too. For me it's not a cure, but it definitely gives me better life quality (although I'm still housebound).


But other people found little effect:
I have followed the diet you describe for a couple of years and while I did see a modest benefit initially, over time this disappeared. Eventually I realised that such a diet starves the gut microbiota and can't be recommended in the long term.
I've been trying the ketogenic diet for 2 mnths. now. Energy is only beginning to improve.



Several issues came up in that thread regarding how to undertake a ketogenic diet without causing problems or side effects. So I made some notes about the best way to avoid the negative effects that a ketogenic diet may cause, and have just posted these notes on that thread here.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,146
Probably will have to wait a little while before I'm able to afford it. Even after the loading phase, you would still have to take the maintenance dose to stay in Ketosis right?

My thoughts are that this KetoForce beta hydroxybutyrate supplement may be useful to help initially push the metabolism into ketosis, to make starting a ketogenic diet easier. This is what it says on the KetoForce website:
Suggested Use: It is suggested that this product be consumed during the initial stages of a ketogenic diet (three times a day for first 2-3 days) to accelerate ketosis and ease metabolic transition. It can be consumed once a day once ketosis has been achieved for help with ketosis maintenance.
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
979
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
As far as I could work out, not a great many ME/CFS patients have actually tried the ketogenic diet. I think the idea of eating just fat and protein-based food all the time is not very attractive, and that's perhaps why not many have attempted the diet. There was a recent thread about a ketogenic diet for ME/CFS here:

Lack of chatter about the Ketogenic Diet

Some people on the thread noted great benefits from a ketogenic diet:






But other people found little effect:





Several issues came up in that thread regarding how to undertake a ketogenic diet without causing problems or side effects. So I made some notes about the best way to avoid the negative effects that a ketogenic diet may cause, and have just posted these notes on that thread here.

Hi.
It's a very good point....how many actually did a dedicated keto diet....without slipping the odd carb.
Thanks hip
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
The puzzle is trickier than some people seem to be implying and stating that we should just try a ketogenic diet and hope everything will be okay is simplistic.

There is evidence of disturbed fatty acid metabolism, likely due to a reduction of carnitine palmitoyltransferase-I (CPT-1) activity.


PPAR-delta (along with PGC-1alpha) is supposed to lead to an increase in CPT-1 expression. It has also been shown to reduce endothelial dysfunction.

Likewise, apart from activating glucose transport, AMPK phosphorylates acetyl-CoA carboxylase ("Acetyl-CoA carboxylase (ACC) converts acetyl-CoA to malonyl-CoA, an inhibitor of carnitine palmitoyltransferase 1 (CPT-1). CPT-1 transports fatty acids into the mitochondria for oxidation")
AMPK activation has been shown to be disturbed in ME/CFS patients.

Also note that while AMPK has a rapid increase in activity as a result of exercise, exercise training attenuates this increase in activity.

Leptin levels have been noted to be increased in patients and potentially associated with severity of symptoms. Leptin promotes fatty acid metabolism and tissue-dependent AMPK activation.

Leptin increases are associated with increased PPAR alpha (and gamma) in adipose tissue. Leptin levels are downregulated upon the presence of saturated fatty acids, but upregulated on the presence of unsaturated fatty acids.

Fluge and Mella also noted an increase in SIRT4 expression.
SIRT4 not only inhibits PDH, it also inhibits mitochondrial glutamate dehydrogenase 1 activity, thereby downregulating insulin secretion in response to amino acids. It has also been shown to inhibit fatty acid oxidation, and pAMPK levels.
SIRT4 also deactivates Malonyl-CoA decarboxylase (which converts malonyl-CoA to acetyl-CoA)

The puzzle is more complicated than at first glance and there seem to be a few missing pieces...
 
Last edited:

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,146
The puzzle is trickier than some people seem to be implying and stating that we should just try a ketogenic diet and hope everything will be okay is simplistic.

That is precisely what I was suggesting in this earlier post, when I pointed out that: "the failure to efficiently process glucose via the pyruvate pathway into the mitochondria should not lead to an energy shortage, because mitochondria can also process dietary fats and protein as alternative energy sources. "

In other words, the pyruvate blockage cannot be the only blockage in energy metabolism.

Nevertheless, if fat metabolism in the mitochondria were also compromised, but working more efficiently than glucose metabolism, then you would expect a ketogenic diet to bring benefits, as it clearly has for several people who tried it.
 
Messages
88
Sharing an article from the Perfect Health Diet:

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/02/ketogenic-diets-i-ways-to-make-a-diet-ketogenic/

"Summary
So we have three ways to make the diet ketogenic:

1) Make Wilder’s “ketogenic ratio” high by eating a lot of fat, very few carbs, and not too much protein.

2) Supplement with the ketogenic amino acids lysine and leucine.

3) Supplement with coconut oil or another source of short-chain fats.

If we do (2) or (3), then the diet can be ketogenic even if it has a fair number of carbs."

Personally, I think it's unpleasant to just wait for your body to produce ketones itself. (This is why low-carb diets can be so tough at first.) Adding in medium chain triglycerides (MCTs) or coconut oil provides instant ketones and it sounds as though lysine and leucine would help too. It will still be an unpleasant wait for your body to burn through its glycogen stores. I wonder if burning up the glycogen would be much slower in situations where PDH is inhibited? The bonus with using MCTs or whole coconut oil is that they do not require bile, which would be helpful if primary biliary cirrhosis/primary sclerosing cholangitis is part of the issue.

But I do think that increasing protein intake to burn for energy would be more of a short-term Band-Aid (and create ammonia) whereas burning ketones can provide energy allowing protein to be used for other things (like building skin, hair, bones, muscles, enzymes, hemoglobin, all of the important proteinaceous things!)
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Just a warning about coconut oil - I took large amounts of this daily a few years ago and got worse and worse before I stumbled on something on the net saying that certain people (with problems with sulphur? I forget what) can't handle it. I got back to "normal" once I cut it out. I wish I could find the reference saying what the issue was.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
I think a lot of us will be interested in a dietary approach to the pyruvate issue but my impression of the keto approach, from reading the recent threads on this post, is that one could do oneself a lot of damage if one didn't have a ton of biochemical knowledge about how to do it safely (even for a healthy person), and could end up considerably worse, or stuck in some weird loop it's hard to come out of.

Are there medical practitioners with the expertise to supervise such an approach? If so, what's their specialism (including in the UK)?

I've consulted NHS dieticians on various things in the past and have been surprised at their lack of knowledge on all sorts of issues. The last one I consulted hadn't heard that certain kinds of supplemental calcium could cause arteriosclerosis and didn't know about food-related causes of migraine.

I don't feel I know enough to do this diet safely myself and don't know who to ask for help within the medical system. :(
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,232
Location
Cornwall, UK
I've consulted NHS dieticians on various things in the past and have been surprised at their lack of knowledge on all sorts of issues. The last one I consulted hadn't heard that certain kinds of supplemental calcium could cause arteriosclerosis and didn't know about food-related causes of migraine.

I don't feel I know enough to do this diet safely myself and don't know who to ask for help within the medical system. :(
Same here. I have found even senior doctors to be astonishingly ignorant, in this country at least, or at least the ones I have met round here. When I lived more centrally I didn't know much myself, but when I studied medical science at undergraduate and Masters level (in the country) I became horrified at the ignorance of doctors. They don't even tell you that they don't know what they're talking about!
 

Glynis Steele

Senior Member
Messages
404
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne UK
I'm not sure if this is of interest for anyone, some here might remember me from d-lactic acidosis discussions a few years ago. Sheedy et al had completed a study into elevated levels of d-lactic acid producing bacteria in stool samples of CFS patients, which they thought might explain some CFS symptoms. D-lactic acid causes severe lethargy, altered mental state, ataxia, headaches, and others symptoms. Anyway, I found this, which points out that high levels of d-lactic acid in the blood causes similar neurological symptoms to inherited or acquired abnormalities of pyruvate metabolism.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292964/
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,146
Just a warning about coconut oil - I took large amounts of this daily a few years ago and got worse and worse before I stumbled on something on the net saying that certain people (with problems with sulphur? I forget what) can't handle it. I got back to "normal" once I cut it out. I wish I could find the reference saying what the issue was.

Thanks Sasha, that's useful to know.

When it comes to medium chain triglycerides, you get large amounts of MCTs in both coconut oil (quite cheap) and in MCT oil (more expensive), but these two oils have different sets of ingredients, so possibly MCT oil may be OK for you, depending on what it was that caused your problems in the coconut oil.



I don't feel I know enough to do this diet safely myself and don't know who to ask for help within the medical system.

I did post some of the ways to help avoid some of the negative side effects of a ketogenic diet here. But one would want to do as much reading and research as possible on how to successfully follow a ketogenic diet and avoid its pitfalls, before starting the diet. Or as you say, get an expert to supervise you while you attempt it.



Personally, I think it's unpleasant to just wait for your body to produce ketones itself. (This is why low-carb diets can be so tough at first.) Adding in medium chain triglycerides (MCTs) or coconut oil provides instant ketones and it sounds as though lysine and leucine would help too.

Looking at a few article online, it does seem that adding leucine and/or lysine to your ketogenic diet will help kickstart and maintain ketogenesis. It points out here that leucine and lysine are:
directly broken down to acetyl-CoA – the precursor of ketone bodies

So taking say 5 grams (1 heaped teaspoon) of leucine each day, along with some coconut oil or MCT oil, may make it easier to kickstart and maintain ketogenesis, and get your ketogenic diet going without too many transitioning hiccups.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
I did post some of the ways to help avoid some of the negative side effects of a ketogenic diet here. But one would want to do as much reading and research as possible on how to successfully follow a ketogenic diet and avoid its pitfalls, before starting the diet. Or as you say, get an expert to supervise you while you attempt it.

All this is so way, way over my head that I'd love to find someone to supervise me but I just don't know who to trust to do that in the UK.
 

ash0787

Senior Member
Messages
308
I like corts article but I wonder what people make of the basic premise, that the reliance on glycolysis is increased and acetal COA production decreased which would create an abundance of pyruvate and possibly then lactate, but lactate supposedly diffuses into the blood if not oxidized ... but wouldn't it require an equal amount of energy to turn it back into glucose making the entire exercise pointless unless the cell desperately needed energy at a certain time ?
and would the lactate increase not be obvious in the blood if it wasn't being reoxidized ?
 
Back