Avenger,
Have you tried the test strips mentioned above, and find anything?
Hi, EddieB,
sorry not to get back sooner, but have still been off all medication/antibiotics for 2 months now, to be able to do D-Lactic assay and have been almost constantly unwell and fatigue and symptoms so bad; that I was taken into hospital with encephalopathy two weeks ago. Even when not ill, I am weak and suffering badly from fatigue, even if I stick to the FODMAP diet and some difficulty thinking today. This is make or break for me and I have to continue until the assay has been properly performed. But the shortest time it has taken for me to have the tests done is 4 hours (3/4 hour of that waiting for a Covid-19 test) to be admitted to hospital; and D-Lactate is transient (although I would assume it can still be found in spinal fluid and a Fecal assay would be the best way to demonstrate Bacterial Overgrowth to identify it for the best antibiotics, but that has not been offered).
I have sent you this concerning Systemic Lupus, which is similarly being related to gut bacteria as are so many other diseases, but interestingly can be related to Fibromyalgia. But in Systemic Lupus one Bacterium is found in higher quantity, Ruminococcus gnavus. It seems to me that these problems with Bacterial Overgrowth are part of a negative cycle that involves Organic acids as neurotoxin, but also secondary immune dysfunction and autoimmune disease that could reinforce one another and cause a wide variety of symptoms.
The interesting thing is that Systemic Lupus has been increasing and that ''Fibromyalgia is a disorder that can occur alone or secondary to connective tissue disorders such as lupus. Studies suggest that about 25% of people who have lupus also have fibromyalgia'';
https://www.hss.edu/conditions_Lupus-and-Fibromyalgia.asp
I have always believed that this is an environmental issue due to bombarding ourselves and Microbiome with pollutants including chlorine and fluoride, antibiotics, and antibacterials etc. changing and acting upon the gut to cause these imbalances (
we are devolving as humans and making ourselves vulnerable to opportunistic Bacteria because we are devolving our microbiome, due to not understanding its complexity or necessity or the effects of chemicals that we place in our water or antibiotics etc.).
I have some difficulty thinking today, so please bear with my poor ability, but Just thinking about this loosely; This is only a thought; but there could be more than one form of Overgrowth or Bacteria involved in ME acting through both Organic acids and Autoimmune disease together (and or possibly unidentified Bacteria and Organic acids). I was also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and have a similar 'butterfly' area on cheeks and across my nose, which is how I came to find this information (I have been looking for whatever is driving my Bacterial Overgrowth) although this may be just another dead end. If renal flares are one of the symptoms of SLE then it is possible for this to inhibit the way that D-Lactate is excreted;
ScienceDaily; Lupus strongly linked to imbalances in gut microbiome
Date:February 19, 2019Source:NYU Langone Health / NYU School of MedicineSummary:The disease systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) -- marked by the attack on joints, skin, and kidneys by the body's immune system -- is linked to an abnormal mix of bacteria in the gut.
The disease systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) -- marked by the attack on joints, skin, and kidneys by the body's immune system -- is linked to an abnormal mix of bacteria in the gut. This is according to a new study led by scientists at NYU School of Medicine.
While bacterial imbalances have been tied to many immune-related diseases, including inflammatory bowel disease, arthritis, and some cancers, the authors of the current study say their experiments are the first detailed evidence of a link between bacterial imbalances in the gut and potentially life-threatening forms of SLE.
The new study, publishing in the
Annals of Rheumatic Diseases online Feb. 19, showed that 61 women diagnosed with SLE had roughly five times more gut bacteria known as
Ruminococcus gnavus, than 17 women of similar ages and racial backgrounds who did not have the disease and were healthy. Lupus is more common in women than in men.
Moreover, study results showed that disease "flares," which can range from instances of skin rash and joint pain to severe kidney dysfunction requiring dialysis, closely tracked major increases in
R. gnavus bacterial growth in the gut, alongside the presence in blood samples of immune proteins called antibodies, specifically shaped to attach to the bacteria. Study participants with kidney flares had especially high levels of antibodies to
R. gnavus.
The authors say the specific causes of lupus, which affects as many as 1.5 million Americans, are unknown, although many suspect that genetic factors are partly responsible.
"Our study strongly suggests that in some patients bacterial imbalances may be driving lupus and its associated disease flares," says study senior investigator and immunologist Gregg Silverman, MD. "Our results also point to leakages of bacteria from the gut as a possible immune system trigger of the disease, and suggest that the internal gut environment may therefore play a more critical role than genetics in renal flares of this all too often fatal disease," says Silverman, a professor in the departments of Medicine and Pathology at NYU Langone Health. He also suspects that antibodies to
R. gnavus provoke a "continuous and unrelenting" immune attack on organs involved in flares.
Among the more practical consequences of the new research, Silverman says, could be the development of relatively simple blood tests to detect antibodies to leaked bacteria, which in turn could also be used to diagnose and track lupus progression and therapy, even in the disease's earliest stages. Current tests, he says, are often inconclusive and rely on signs and symptoms that only appear after the disease has already advanced.
Silverman, who also serves as associate director of rheumatology at NYU Langone, cautions that larger studies are needed to confirm how these bacteria may cause lupus. But if future experiments show similarly positive results, then it could result in shifts from current approaches to treating the disease, which focus on immune-suppressing anticancer medications to relieve symptoms and injury to the kidneys.
If the study team's results are validated, then some current treatments may actually be causing harm if they impair overall immune defenses against infection.
Instead, Silverman says, future treatments could include inexpensive probiotics or dietary regimens that impede
R. gnavus growth and prevent flares. Fecal transplants from healthy individuals would also be a possibility.
Alternatively, Silverman says, new treatments could also be used to promote growth of
Bacteroides uniformis, bacteria thought to hinder growth of
R. gnavus in the gut and whose numbers decreased by as much as fourfold in study participants with lupus when compared to those without the disease. Experts say that over a 1,000 different types of bacteria make up the human gut microbiome.
For the study, researchers analyzed blood and stool samples from participants. Researchers were surprised to find strong immune antibody reactions to
R. gnavus in the blood because the gut lining prevents the bacterium from escaping to other parts of the body. Researchers say this suggests that small pieces of the bacteria, known as antigens, must have "leaked" into the gut to trigger the immune reaction.
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