MAF 878 Available - Anyone already using it?

[Andrew]

Look at this setup. Notice they say they got it to 80 degrees.

http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguides/blogs/editor/2009/04/homemade-yogurt.html

 

[clive powney]

anyone remember the simple setup we all probably saw in infant school, where the teacher incubated chicken eggs in a smallish box with a few light bulbs as heaters - I bet with a bit of testing (how many bulbs and size of box ) that this would be PERFECT

 

[maddietod]

I posted on Dr. Enlander's wall last night, and got this response:

I've sent for a starter pack of MAF 878. I plan to make a quarter of it up, and start at a quarter dose or less per day. I have 2 questions.

Do I have to throw out any unused yogurt at the end of a month? If not, how long does it stay viable?

If I add colostrum (what form and how much?), can I use my made-up MAF 878 as a starter for the next batch?

Derek Enlander It should last for 2 months.

Derek Enlander THE probiotic bacteria do not replicate continuously for more than six weeks.


A lot of us have asked the second question, and nobody has been answered.

 

[shannah]

Thanks Madie for posting this info.

I don't quite understand why he says that the probiotics do not replicate continuously for more than six weeks. Anybody here understand what he means? I wonder what is or isn't in it. People who make their own yogurt and kefir do so indefinitely. Once they've made the first batch, they just keep making from the previous batch.

I know with Kefir you can either start culturing with the grains (which then go on indefinitely) or can use a kefir starter which then only lasts about 6 weeks. But since we would be adding our own yogurt and kefir, the probiotics from there would continue to proliferate providing of course we were using products with active cultures in them.

Apparently also with multi strain probiotics, some strains tend to over run others so you can't be sure over time what the actual composition is anymore.

Apparently the MAF 314 people were asked to add 125 mg of colostrum a week. I think I read that in the MAF 314 thread here on PR.

 

[gu3vara]

It's unfortunately in Dr Enlander financial interest not to mention if we can have endless supply from one starter kit. See what I mean? I hope it's not that... I hate docs making business over sick and poor patients like Cheney...

 

[Jenny]

All this is so frustratingly complicated - just like so many other treatments which are dangled enticingly in front of us, just out of reach. There's no way I could manage all this preparation at the moment.

Jenny

 

[jace]

Why shouldn't we freeze a small quantity of each batch, to act as a starter whenever required? You can do that with yoghurt making.

 

[SickOfSickness]

All this is so frustratingly complicated - just like so many other treatments which are dangled enticingly in front of us, just out of reach. There's no way I could manage all this preparation at the moment.

If you can afford it, maybe you could pay to have it made. There are many housewives, single moms, students, and other people who are looking to make extra money. I would love to do all the prep work, and deliver the ready-to-eat product to someone in my area, if they would pay for mine. I'm in the US and I don't want to post where I live.

 

[maddietod]

I'm thinking that we might be able to figure this out, but it will take some time and experimenting. Once a few of us are on it, hopefully we'll start to know how it feels. Then we could experiment with re-culturing, and see if it feels the same. Unless there's that typical roller-coaster of adaptation/changing the dose.

I'm not surprised that Dr. Enlander hasn't answered about culturing from previous batches. He's probably sunk a lot of money into creating this product. Also, he's unlikely to be testing that ATM. What's important is to create identical, stable batches of maf 878 to get out to patients. There are a lot more variables when you're culturing from a previous batch

 

[Jenny]

If you can afford it, maybe you could pay to have it made. There are many housewives, single moms, students, and other people who are looking to make extra money. I would love to do all the prep work, and deliver the ready-to-eat product to someone in my area, if they would pay for mine. I'm in the US and I don't want to post where I live.

Good idea SOS. Trouble is, if I can't easily work out how to keep it at the right temp, and what sort of kefir to add etc, how will anyone else? And how could one be sure that the person kept strictly to the instructions? I'd happily ask you to do it if I were in the US - as a fellow ME patient I would trust you to do it properly, but I'm not sure how I'd find someone here to do it.

The worst thing would be to spend all that money taking it for 6 months or whatever and then not to know how far to rely on the results because you're not sure it's been made properly!

Jenny

 

[alice]

Re: maintaining the appropriate 85 degree temperature. for Maf 878

Years ago I had several fish tanks and had to maintain certain temperature for the fish, but I can't remember what temperatures the heaters maintained. If these heaters go low enough then that may be a solution.for brewing the yoghurt mixture. There are also thermometers available for putting into the water. So if anyone keeps fish, could you please check this out. My tanks etc are long gone.

Keep the yoghurt jar in water in a big pot or fish tank and fill with some water to appropriate degree. The water would help maintain even temperature for quite awhile even if outside temp is higher or lower. Does anyone know what the allowable range of temperature can be. For U.S., with summer here, it seems that just letting it sit on counter is about 80 degrees (unless no AC).

Excuse me if this has been mentioned. There are now several threads going on Maf878, so someone may have already mentioned it.
Alice

 

[anniekim]

This Toshiba yoghurt maker has an adjustable temperature but is only availabe from Japan. This site says it will ship to the US and the UK, don't know how much shipping and custom duties would be though

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/marushin-ds/item/tym-1000-w/

The heating plate discussed in the link Andrew provided sounds a good idea....I am sure there are ways to keep it at approx 80F for five days...

 

[Andrew]

I don't know how long people have been making maf 878 yogurt, but I would not be surprised if Enlander doesn't know yet if this can be done continuously. Someone would have to set up inside a lab to and run months of tests to determine this.

 

[Andrew]

Keep the yoghurt jar in water in a big pot or fish tank and fill with some water to appropriate degree. The water would help maintain even temperature for quite awhile even if outside temp is higher or lower. Does anyone know what the allowable range of temperature can be. For U.S., with summer here, it seems that just letting it sit on counter is about 80 degrees (unless no AC).

Good idea. Also might be good to make sure the water circulates around the pot, to keep temp consistent.

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/aquarium-basics/temperature-control.htm

 

[SickOfSickness]

If these heaters go low enough then that may be a solution.for brewing the yoghurt mixture. There are also thermometers available for putting into the water. So if anyone keeps fish, could you please check this out. My tanks etc are long gone.

Good idea! I have an aquarium heater that adjusts from 65 to 89 degrees. You would probably want a submersible heater so it doesn't have to stay vertical. Mine is long.

Good idea. Also might be good to make sure the water circulates around the pot, to keep temp consistent.

Another good idea. It's easy to do.

Good idea SOS. Trouble is, if I can't easily work out how to keep it at the right temp, and what sort of kefir to add etc, how will anyone else?

Yes, I thought of that too Maybe someone could come to your place with the kefir and yogurt and cream, and set it all up for you. With the fish tank idea, it should stay at 80 degrees on its own, without needing to be checked. Then you pull it out of the water and stick in the fridge.

 

[alice]

Good idea. Also might be good to make sure the water circulates around the pot, to keep temp consistent.


Andrew, circulating the water in fish aquariums:
That's also easy to do -Aquariums need an airstone to keep water circulating for the fish - this air stone connects by plastic tube to a little motor that sits outside the tank and keeps water bubbling continuously. These items were not expensive - not years ago anyway.
Alice

 

[Andrew]

I keep thinking of ideas, but none that I could easily implement.

1. Incubator
2. Food warmer
3. Heating lamp attached too a dimmer to control heat.
4. Double boiler

Or, get a bunch of chickens to sit on it.

 

[garcia]

Two solutions that others (in the SCD community) have used with success for controlling the temperature of a yoghurt maker are:

1. Attaching a dimmer switch to a yoghurt maker. More info here:
http://eatingscd.com/2008/10/01/yoghurt-dimming/

Luckily, there is an easy solution – a plug in dimmer switch. What’s that you ask? It’s a simple little device you can purchase at your local hardware store for $10 – 20 USD. It’s designed to take an ordinary lamp and make it dimmable. You simply plug your Yogourmet into the dimmer switch and the dimmer switch into a regular electrical outlet. The trick is to figure out how much to “dim” your yoghurt and when to do it to obtain and maintain the right temperature.

2. Using a digital egg incubator. More info here:
http://eatingscd.com/recipes/#comment-1091

Also I saw where several of your readers were looking for a yogurt maker that would allow greater temperature control. I have purchased a digital egg incubator, it looks like a small wine refrigerator, and it can make up to a gallon of yogurt at one time. The temperature is constantly controlled to the 1th degree. I brought a reptipro from eBay and it is expensive but it is also one less worry about having my yogurt at the right temperature and a good amount.

Number 1 is cheap, but you would have to spend some time faffing about and calibrating your set-up with a thermometer to make sure you hit the right temp. Number 2 is the "set and forget" method, but expensive. Perhaps something people might want to upgrade to it after a while of making MAF878.

Has anyone tried asking either Enlander or one of the people who knows how to make MAF378 what they use???

 

[anniekim]

I emailed the Japanese website I gave the link to above that sells a Toshiba yoghurt maker with an adjustable temperature setting from 25c to 50c (77f to 122f), adjusts upwards by one degrees each time, so low enough for the maf838 and the shipping is £30/$46 to Uk and US respectively. So not the cheapest option but for those who may be able to afford it and don't have the energy to faff around could be an option.

I.ve also seen some device on a Uk website, Lakeland, that warms plates. Someone says they put a hot towel above it and then use it for raising bread. You could do this with the yoghurt if you placed a bowl above with some water to check what heat it generates. Thing is you will only know once you've bought it.

Garcia's idea of asking those who make maf 314 is a good one as is the fish tank if you have one. I don't know how much they cost, will google

 

[jace]

The dimmer switch is a brilliant idea! I've just bought one for under a fiver http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=03BW0GCZHY5PDGT5TPKP

One of the glowing reviews was from someone who bought it to control a yoghurt makes