LL-37 peptide

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shakyradical

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any folks tried the LL-37 peptide?

I was suggested I alternate it with Thymosin alpha 1 (which has helped me tremendously) but I'm a bit hesitant to take out something that has helped so much for an unknown.

thanks!
 
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datadragon

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You can also evaluate trying active Vitamin D (calcitriol) or Sodium Butyrate which induce LL-37.

LL-37 transports immunoreactive cGAMP to activate STING signaling and enhance interferon-mediated host antiviral immunity. . cGAMP transferred by LL-37 activates robust interferon responses and host antiviral immunity in a STING-dependent manner. Furthermore, we report that LL-37 inducers vitamin D3 and sodium butyrate promote host immunity by enhancing endogenous LL-37 expression and its mediated cGAMP immune response. Collectively, our data uncover an essential role of LL-37 in innate immune activation and suggest new strategies for immunotherapy. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35649354/
 
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S

shakyradical

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thanks for the reply.

hoping for some more direct experience with said peptide. :)

and tbh I have no idea what the vast majority of that quote means so no idea what to do with that info
 
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datadragon

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LL-37 is an antimicrobial peptide that acts as an essential defense mechanism against bacterial, viral, or fungi infection and has an essential role in innate immune activation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathelicidin LL-37 naturally is stimulated by the active form of Vitamin D (calcitriol) or Sodium Butyrate. So its possible to take LL-37 or Thymosin alpha 1 as you have to help increase immune function which may be helpful to consider with a medical practitioner to have a more effective immune response and help possibly reduce overactive inflammation if that is the issue for that individual. The main drawback is Zinc (needed for some of Vitamin D Receptor functions) and Butyrate are lowered through prolonged inflammation or infection and therefore have many subsequent 'downsteam' effects that go beyond a specific single pathway or function. This just means that sometimes when someone takes something like drugs or a peptide like that we are only working on one specific downstream area/pathway which may help if that pathway activation or inhibition is helpful, but not necessarily always helping with all the other areas that are not working properly due to the missing nutrient that should also be a focus for treatments.

Thymosin alpha 1 is a peptide naturally occurring in the thymus that has long been recognized for modifying, enhancing, and restoring immune function. The immune response of thymosin alpha 1 is due to its action in elevating the activity of T cell maturation into CD4+/CD8+ T cells. It works to directly activate natural killer cells as well as CD8+ T cells through which it kills virally infected cells. Thymosin alpha 1 has a negative effect on IL-1β and tumor necrosis factor-α, which in turn leads to a decreased inflammatory response. A nice overview: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7747025/
 
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sometexan84

sometexan84

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Hip said:
Yes, see the recovery and improvements thread.
Click to expand...
This is first I've heard of someone getting better on LL-37... I actually wasn't aware anyone was trying it for ME/CFS.

Another possibility as to why LL-37 helped this person...

(March 2023 study) - Shows LL-37 inhibited the viral replication of enterovirus through exosomes.

Cathelicidins Target HSP60 To Restrict CVB3 Transmission via Disrupting the Exosome and Reducing Cardiomyocyte Apoptosis

So basically, enteroviruses and SARS-CoV-2 can create persistent infection, utilizing these bridges they create from infected cell to non-infected cell, thus spreading. (Another new study that goes over this - https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457923000515)

Apparently, the antimicrobial peptide LL-37 (cathelicidin) breaks down these bridges, thus thwarting viral spread through exosomes.
 
S

shakyradical

Messages
62
sometexan84 said:
This is first I've heard of someone getting better on LL-37... I actually wasn't aware anyone was trying it for ME/CFS.

Another possibility as to why LL-37 helped this person...

(March 2023 study) - Shows LL-37 inhibited the viral replication of enterovirus through exosomes.

Cathelicidins Target HSP60 To Restrict CVB3 Transmission via Disrupting the Exosome and Reducing Cardiomyocyte Apoptosis

So basically, enteroviruses and SARS-CoV-2 can create persistent infection, utilizing these bridges they create from infected cell to non-infected cell, thus spreading. (Another new study that goes over this - https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457923000515)

Apparently, the antimicrobial peptide LL-37 (cathelicidin) breaks down these bridges, thus thwarting viral spread through exosomes.
Click to expand...
well I started it and feel worse.

gonna stop and try again later perhaps.

it makes senes it would help since it heals dysbiosis (which is probably a part of a lot of folks ME. it sure is mine.)

and also the anti viral, which again lots of people probs have post viral ME so it could do something for that.
 
Hip

Hip

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sometexan84 said:
Apparently, the antimicrobial peptide LL-37 (cathelicidin) breaks down these bridges, thus thwarting viral spread through exosomes.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, as cathelicidin and beta-defensin are the two anti-microbial peptides that the Marshall Protocol induces, according to Prof Marshall. And beta-defensin 3 has been shown antiviral for CVB3.

So it looks like both anti-microbial peptides of the MP may have antiviral effects against enterovirus.

On the MP website there are some patients who claim the MP improved their ME/CFS; although it is a slow process taking several years.
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
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1,241
shakyradical said:
well I started it and feel worse.

gonna stop and try again later perhaps.

it makes senes it would help since it heals dysbiosis (which is probably a part of a lot of folks ME. it sure is mine.)

and also the anti viral, which again lots of people probs have post viral ME so it could do something for that.
Click to expand...
How long you been on it?

Going to keep trying it for a while?
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,241
Hip said:
That's interesting, as cathelicidin and beta-defensin are the two anti-microbial peptides that the Marshall Protocol induces, according to Prof Marshall. And beta-defensin 3 has been shown antiviral for CVB3.

So it looks like both anti-microbial peptides of the MP may have antiviral effects against enterovirus.

On the MP website there are some patients who claim the MP improved their ME/CFS; although it is a slow process taking several years.
Click to expand...
LL-37 is also a TLR3 agonist (like Ampligen), helpful for interferon lambda production :thumbsup:

I may consider taking LL-37 peptide with my lambda
 
S

shakyradical

Messages
62
Hip said:
That's interesting, as cathelicidin and beta-defensin are the two anti-microbial peptides that the Marshall Protocol induces, according to Prof Marshall. And beta-defensin 3 has been shown antiviral for CVB3.

So it looks like both anti-microbial peptides of the MP may have antiviral effects against enterovirus.

On the MP website there are some patients who claim the MP improved their ME/CFS; although it is a slow process taking several years.
Click to expand...
if it took years then they could just have been getting better regardless of the antivirals no?
 
Hip

Hip

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18,133
shakyradical said:
if it took years then they could just have been getting better regardless of the antivirals no?
Click to expand...

Generally ME/CFS patients do not get better on their own once the disease has established itself for a few years. It's only in the first two years of the illness (the first two years after the triggering viral infection) that full recovery is common (recovery from post-viral fatigue).
 
S

shakyradical

Messages
62
Hip said:
Generally ME/CFS patients do not get better on their own once the disease has established itself for a few years. It's only in the first two years of the illness (the first two years after the triggering viral infection) that full recovery is common (recovery from post-viral fatigue).
Click to expand...
yeah that's the typically accepted notion, but how much research is there to support this?

I suspect there is probably no research on our population past 2 year mark cause we get put out to pasture.
 
Hip

Hip

Senior Member
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18,133
shakyradical said:
yeah that's the typically accepted notion, but how much research is there to support this?
Click to expand...

There have been around half a dozen studies looking at recoveries and the long term outcome of ME/CFS patients. I've posted them on this forum in the past.

Also if you look at this forum, which has 32,000 members over the years, recovery stories are exceedingly rare.
 
S

shakyradical

Messages
62
Hip said:
There have been around half a dozen studies looking at recoveries and the long term outcome of ME/CFS patients. I've posted them on this forum in the past.

Also if you look at this forum, which has 32,000 members over the years, recovery stories are exceedingly rare.
Click to expand...
well I suppose you must be right.

though I remain skeptical.

this forum population is a specific type of people. ones that are on forums and such.
not generalizable perhaps.

also, the studies, are they involving treatments of long term ME? or just random people with ME over the course of years?

either way, I'm gonna not get too attached to this stuff.

I recovered from meth addiction and the stats are worse for that.
 
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