Is neural/limbic retraining (DNRS) a treatment for ME/CFS or not?

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

So when I described this as brainwashing, I wasn't just being hyperbolic

Nor did I think you were. DNRS proponents, who all sell some version or another of this, pretty much bullhorn 'CULT !! CULT !!! CULT !!! ENTER HERE ...."

Which is not to say that all DNRS enthusiasts are exploitive hucksters, but almost all of those who sell the multiple versions of this .... discipline, for want of a better word ... are snake oil salesmen, purveyors of ghost breath, a product whose entire value rests in how hard you can clap for Tinkerbell ....

Ms Samways says these methods are now used by nearly all cults, personal development and even fortune tellers and white witches.

I think that certain unscrupulous politicians can be added to that list. One in particular, without naming names ....

 

[frozenborderline]

Nor did I think you were. DNRS proponents, who all sell some version or another of this, pretty much bullhorn 'CULT !! CULT !!! CULT !!! ENTER HERE ...."

Which is not to say that all DNRS enthusiasts are exploitive hucksters, but almost all of those who sell the multiple versions of this .... discipline, for want of a better word ... are snake oil salesmen, purveyors of ghost breath, a product whose entire value rests in how hard you can clap for Tinkerbell ....


I think that certain unscrupulous politicians can be added to that list. One in particular, without naming names ....

I mean yeah we certainly agree that this is the same as brainwashing, I guess that when I did a brief search of the term neuro-linguistic programming tho, I was blown away by how relevant it is to well known cults with histories of human trafficking, abuse, sexual trafficking etc... and how recent or current some of these cults are. Does the lightning process also use NLP? Bc if it does ... then wow... a government promoting cult brainwashing as a treatment. Not that cbt for ME/CFS works better but there's at least a veneer of respectability. But this NLP stuff is just new age cult stuff which is very very sinister.

I updated that post you replied to with even more finds. It's wild. This is a big rabbit hole. I don't have much energy currently but I plan to do an episode somewhat soon that delves into the crossover between these known cults and NLP and brain retraining programs for me/cfs. I have have little energy but this is a heckuva story that should really be delved into.

I know survivors of (non cfs /non dnrs related ) cults, like sex trafficking related ones... not NXIVM, way smaller ones. Some of those people do mold avoidance and also have dealt with these chronic illnesses so they may be in a good position to speak on these similarities... this is wild stuff.

Btw just more general stuff about the NXIVM cult here:

 

[frozenborderline]

I really want to absolutely take down the corrupt and harmful brain retraining groups. That sounds aggressive but by take down i don't mean attacking them in any harmful way or anything I mean Exposing their connection to cults , the lack of science behind their practices and the trauma, physical and mental, they've caused so many people. I have stumbled inadvertently into a bizarre out in the open real life conspiracy or set of small conspiracies rather than some overarching conspiracy

 

[poohsilk]

Get a book on meditation and save yourself the trouble. Dnrs doesn't work to cure the illness

Try Dr joe Dispenza on you tube and read his book first . Similar practice about stopping and overcoming mental and emotional blocks, beliefs and perceptions every day, then visualizing future self with elevated emotions. It has helped me alot. I believe it has to do with how deeply entrenched our illnesses are, and how much is effecting our emotional mental balance. Mold was a huge culprit, perhaps the root cause along with detox problems stemming way back. Still working on getting that out of the body, working on liver and gut health as well. DNRS , Gupta did not help enough.

 

[poohsilk]

I really want to absolutely take down the corrupt and harmful brain retraining groups. That sounds aggressive but by take down i don't mean attacking them in any harmful way or anything I mean Exposing their connection to cults , the lack of science behind their practices and the trauma, physical and mental, they've caused so many people. I have stumbled inadvertently into a bizarre out in the open real life conspiracy or set of small conspiracies rather than some overarching conspiracy

I feel the need here to defend the kind of self help brain retraining done to improve ones health. The DNRS or Gupta programs don't have you follow a leader. The only goal is to attain better helth and you do it yourself. I had a friend say she thought it was like gaslighting, meaning, I surmise, that they are saying its all in your head and all up to you. One has to look closer to the teachings than just a cursory look.

 

[Johnmac]

Such a useful post @mbunke - thank you.

@xebex That's incredibly infuriating, I'm so sorry. That's somewhat interesting though, do you have any theories about what might be happening?

@Abrin I will definitely let everyone on this thread know when I start making videos! Until then, let me work on putting together some kind of summary. I actually built a website at one point to help get the information out there for free, but couldn't afford to keep it running so I might just transfer the information to a blog or something just so I can direct people there when they're looking for info. I'll let you know once I've put something together! If you message me your email I can share some cool stuff with you. And @Tella I can help you with getting your hands on the DNRS content if you message me your email too

 

[Johnmac]

Hello all,

I'll admit I have not read every post on this thread since my last response since there were many, but I'd like to clarify and apologize for a few things:

I'm very sorry that my post came off sounding like pwME are just not motivated enough...

I don't think you implied that. Your posts have been brilliant & very helpful to me. (I'm aged 72 - the inverse of 27.)

I once cured kidney disease (glomeruleronephritis, or nephrotic syndrome) with diet, supps & exercise. I thought I'd share the good news, & do some good in the world, by posting my results on a forum for people with kidney disease. I have never received such online abuse in my life. There were 30 pages of it, including obscene drawings. (-: What I did was 'impossible', 'unscientific', 'dangerous' - you name it.

This confirmed my long-held belief that many people would rather be seen to be right than to get well.

 

[hapl808]

This confirmed my long-held belief that many people would rather be seen to be right than to get well.

I mostly agree, but I think it's just that: it's very hard to change a strongly held belief. Saying they'd rather be right than get well is a bit victim blaming.

It's more that they don't believe it will heal them. I've had people tell me I should accept Christ and pray more because in this realm that's the only thing that can really heal. I haven't so,, but not because I'd rather be right than healthy; it's because I don't believe it would help me. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's why I just prefer stuff that says, "Hey, worked for me - might not work for you." As soon as promises go beyond that, it gets quite aggravating. Like all the doctors who promise to heal us, then get annoyed with us if we don't get better with their wonderful care.

I don't think I have a ton of strongly held beliefs. I try to have a lot of well formed beliefs, lightly held. If we find out tomorrow that ME/CFS is not a distinct illness but is a bucket of five illnesses, I'm fine with that.

As for DNRS - what you said about kidney disease is one of the things that bothers me about those programs. None of them offer to treat any illness where there's a clear biomarker or even a widely accepted illness diagnosis. They don't offer to cure HIV, CKD, ALS, MD, even MS, etc.

In the end, I actually don't really care. If some people benefit, that's fine. If they benefit from prayer, that's fine. I'm relatively open minded and I tried Gupta for months following their instructions not to tell anyone (a smidge cult-like), repeat their mantras, etc. I found the mantras vaguely pleasant, found the videos horribly boring and annoying use of energy, and that was about it. Made zero impact on my health that I could tell.

To each their own, until we find reliable treatments for the majority.

 

[bumpkin]

I tried Gupta for months following their instructions not to tell anyone

Ahhh but you told just now, that was the kicker!

None of them offer to treat any illness where there's a clear biomarker or even a widely accepted illness diagnosis. They don't offer to cure HIV, CKD, ALS, MD, even MS, etc.

I just watched an interview of Dispenza for my first time and was a little taken aback when he alluded to both endometriosis and ovarian cysts simply going poof! gone, just by doing as he says and letting go of one's past traumas and shifting their personality So it looks like they do occasionally find the nerve to suggest that sort of thing.

I had difficulty placing who his intended audience must've been -- Because I would happily take a delightful personality and some lingering trauma cysts any day over whatever toxically positive homogenized testimonial of a personality he's wishing to turn other individuals into. Hard pass on that one