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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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I see your point. The Gupta Program and that reeking pile, The Lightening Process and one other I cant think of right now work on that premise, which is convenient for the push ..... uh sellers of these packets of ghost breath because if it doesnt work, it's all your fault. I'm guessing that somewhere in the purchase agreement the fact that you culdnt ake it wor will nullify the promised return policy
Yeah, cause we all know how well that works for dementia, or cancer, or a broken arm.
Quite possibly But that would be a tough prove.
I agree. FIddling with the brai and CNS is very risky business, but we've becoe inured to it thru decades of feel-goods like Prozac, etc. Tinkering with our brains is something we let dermatologists do now.
In a somewhat indirect way, yes, it very well could have. Again a tough prove, but it just makes sense. Ignoring well-documented signals from your body that it's had enough is also pretty well documented as to its general outcome.
I think this would be a fascinating research project though! It's an ideal case study for how exeercise/pushing thorugh and ignoring limits harms us.
Yeah you don't have to prove causality beyond a doubt. Basic statistical view of stuff always says there's degrees of causality you never reach some ceetainty about it.
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Please please do.
Oh, thank you !! I thought that it conveyed that frazzled "Fine, fine, fine, everything's just fine" thing that we all go thru at the start of this before we descend into hell ...By the way I've been lurking on this forum for a long time and I really like your profile picture
Feel free to PM me if you want to get on a call about how to implement this.Thanks a lot, that's very nice of you !! I'm glad !
Thank you for your advice, and I'll definitely come back and tell you how it goes.
By the way I've been lurking on this forum for a long time and I really like your profile picture
i think Dan from ANS rewire has one of the best explanations. neil nathan's work on the CDR is also on point. cell danger response is turned on when we are in a freeze state. we shift both through meds/herbs and through nervous system level practices.
The cell danger response is also turned on by chemical and infectious threats that aren't necessarily resolved.
I know some people who have a similar perspective--supporting physical treatments and also dnrs to calm down whatever psych issues are there. And sure, that's reasonable. It seems to also require a lot of caution because many dnrs teachers and programs seem to urge people to understand things like PEM and reactions to toxins not as real physical things but as something u need to train ur "limbic system" out of overreacting to. I've never seen any scientific evidence of the limbic system part btw
"Brett gently reminded me that we didn’t need to agree with Gupta’s theory of what causes the illness in order to try the exercises. The program might still be a helpful piece of the puzzle even if he was wrong about a lot of things.
Yes, I already have posted on here btw about how disappointed I was that naviaux lent his credibility and name to a book which has many unscientific parts including the brain retraining stuff. It's somewhere else on the forum. This is not a contradiction in what I said. Naviaux is a good scientists and I agree with his approach to activism around environmental toxins, but I think it's foolish of him to start promoting a book involving these treatments without even having that much science to even understand the cell danger response let alone treat it. Many good scientists also promote things that are foolish or wrong. Linus Pauling was a nobel prize winner but became fixated on the idea megadoses of vitamin c could cure cancer and died with a mixed legacy bc of that. Naviaux is brilliant. Dnrs is promoted in a way that is unethical , beyond the issues with its content. Good doctors should acknowledge uncertainty and their limitations. Telling people about 100 percent cure rate if they follow this neurolinguistic programming program, would be unethical even if it wasn't hokum. I've never heard of an ME/CFS doc saying ivig will be 100 percent cure or mestinon or anything like that! Or even ampligen, which certainly has more evidence for it than this. If you take some of tbe basic ideas like meditation or ways for calming down the brain and apply them devoid of promises like that and the whole structure of the program which tells you to ignore the physical problems and toxins ... then yeah I could see it maybe being helpful. And a doctor I know who promotes some forms of psych treatment related to brain retraining says as much... he says unfortunately the Gupta program and hoppers program don't teach people about the physiological treatments like mold avoidance and detox u need to do before these treatments like brain retraining can work , and in fact those programs discourage these things. And while I respect this doctor somewhat I was dumbfounded bc he was basically saying "if this program was totally totally different and threw out a lot of the core ideas it could be used well in some subset of patients ". Which yeah, maybe I agree with, but as far as I know there's no brain retraining program that does that ... people would have to build it themselves. And vulnerable people are prone to being damaged by misinformation so I don't think this program should be encouraged as it is. I don't see what's wrong with therapy or good old fashioned meditation...
