If glutathione supplements are so bad for B12 deficiency cases, why does Liposomal Glutathione help me so much momentarily?

[HurrySaveMe]

I have textbook symptoms of B12 and thiamine deficiencies, whenever I take Liposomal Glutathione for a couple of days I start experiencing major improvements in my brain fog and body numbness, it's like glutathione kickstarts circulation back up in my body again, so much that it causes a sensation of pressure in some of my limbs. My libido also comes back full swing.

But after some days of these improvements I crash pretty badly, brain fog and fatigue becomes even worse for a while. This happens if I take full dose Liposomal Glutathione every day, but if I take a lower dose of it only occasionally combined with occasional sublingual methyl B12 and other B vitamins I have major improvements temporarily but without the crash afterwards.

I personally think thiamine deficiency is what's causing all sorts of deficiencies for me in B12, glutathione, acetylcholine, etc. So I'm trialing TTFD with cofactors right now, as this has done very noticeable things to me, it's been giving me strong sensations that travels through my brain stem.

 

[LINE]

You have to remember that there are many pathways that co-exist with each other as you know. If you push button A then button B and C are going to be changed (likely), Whack A mole.

Pathways are dependent on vitamin co-factors but also minerals, fatty acids and proteins. And of course, when you have disturbances of ME, things get unusual.

It sounds like you have some good experiments and observations going on. Testing through observations is the only way to go IMO and you are doing a good job!

 

[HurrySaveMe]

It sounds like you have some good experiments and observations going on. Testing through observations is the only way to go IMO and you are doing a good job!

I've just been really wondering what the possible mechanisms behind the reactions I have to glutathione and B12 supplementation could be. I see so much conflicting information on here and Reddit that glutathione supplements induce B12 deficiencies, yet others have said glutathione actually helps your body utilize B12 if you're deficient, so I just don't know what to believe here.

 

[JES]

Why do you think you have thiamine deficiency? As far as I know, very few people in the west would have any sort of clinical B1 deficiency. B12 deficiency is a little more common.

Improvement after taking a supplement and then crashing later on is very common in ME/CFS. Whenever you take a supplement, especially a powerful antioxidant like glutathione, you are probably altering thousands of metabolic pathways in your body. Most certainly taking glutathione would not cause you to develop vitamin B deficiencies within such a short period of time.

I generally do not find that supplements work or do not work for my symptoms due to actual deficiencies. I attribute the improvement I get from some supplements to that my body is temporarily pushed out of the "ME/CFS homeostatis" state. Once pushed out of that, I feel better, but my body and immune system inevitably wants to get back to the ME/CFS state and eventually succeeds once it adapts to the effects of the new supplement.

 

[HurrySaveMe]

Why do you think you have thiamine deficiency?

Because I have textbook symptoms of dysautonomia, gastroparesis, impaired gut motility and blood flow issues which are all more often associated with thiamine deficiency. It's not even rare either, it can happen in several instances such as chronic stress, alcohol abuse and long-term antibiotic use. (which I unfortunately have done) High dose thiamine has also helped many with ME/CFS.

 

[JES]

Because I have textbook symptoms of dysautonomia, gastroparesis, impaired gut motility and blood flow issues which are all more often associated with thiamine deficiency. It's not even rare either, it can happen in several instances such as chronic stress, alcohol abuse and long-term antibiotic use. (which I unfortunately have done) High dose thiamine has also helped many with ME/CFS.

If you type those symptoms into Google or an AI diagnostic bot, I reckon you'd find dozens of diseases that include those four symptoms. They are all for example typical symptoms that ME/CFS patients struggle with as well.

Yep, I reckon a few persons here reported their symptoms were helped by high-dose thiamine, but they were not cured either, which they should be if it was merely thiamine deficiency.

The reason high-dose thiamine improves fatigue in ME/CFS has unlikely much to do with clinical or any sort of thiamine deficiency, but rather that high dose thiamine provides a co-factor in various metabolic pathways that are speculated to be dysregulated in ME/CFS.

Thiamine is for example a cofactor needed by the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase, which is essential in energy metabolism. Pyruvate dehydrogenase is impaired in ME/CFS if we believe the findings of Norwegian ME/CFS researchers Fluge and Mella. The reason is not thiamine deficiency, but rather likely immune mediated.

But let's say an ME/CFS patient takes high-dose thiamine, it may help to allow the pathways involving pyruvate dehydrogenase to function closer to normal at least temporarily, so the result would be improvement in symptoms from thiamine that was unrelated to any clinical thiamine deficiency.

 

[dannybex]

@HurrySaveMe, Glutathione isn't bad for those with B12 deficiency or sufficiency. It helps B12 to work better, to become metabolically active. I had one of my best remissions back in 2004 when a doc prescribed methyl-B12 injections along with nebulized glutathione.

I think you're probably referring to Fred's many mentions of glutathione 'destroying' b12 or something along those lines. First of all, he has said he never used glutathione itself, but rather NAC (n-acetylcysteine) and/or glutamine (or as he called it l-glutamate). And in his case these rather odd reactions may be due to rare genetic issues that he may have.

 

[Tsukareta]

for me it often causes a 'detox' which feels like a mild fever where you start to sweat under the armpits, have a change in cognition, sort of like a mild brain fog or unfocused hazy mind, and often a sort of dull stomach ache, usually doesn't last long though, I have got the same effect from activated charcoal, I have mold exposure and related symptoms though like blurry vision, red eyes, allergic like reactions to food and multiple chemical sensitivity.

 

[cheeseater]

Agree with Jes. Thiamin deficiency is pretty unusual outside of third world contries where very poor diets are common.

Most common cause I have seen of thiamin deficiency is advanced alcoholism disease. But, people with nutrient absorption troubles from things like Crohn's disease or celiac disease can also cause it.

Crohn's and celiac disease can also cause B12 deficiency. Some people get better results with a methyl protocol of methylfolate and Methylcobalamin.