How LORAZEPAM destroyed my health and sanity for 4 1/2 weeks

[geraldt52]

[QUOTE
Benzos for sleep and benzos for long term treatment for me are unagreeable. What favor do they do to somebody if he gets a drug-induced relief for a couple of weeks (if he does) but afterwards has to face a) addiction and turkey issues or the raising of the dose with no more benefit and b) the original problems in addition??? That´s bizarre or at least unlogical to me.
But as an emergency medication, I have also been glad they exist.
][/QUOTE]

I would agree with all of that.

For those who have been on a benzo for an extended period of time with no problems, I would just caution you that I would have said exactly the same thing, right up until the time they blew up in my face, big time. You won't know you're in danger until it is too late.

If anybody wonders how Michael Jackson could have ended up where he ended up, and did what he did with Propofol, the answer is the misuse of benzos...under a doctor's "care". Anyone who has gone without sleep for 4 or 5 days straight will understand the desperation that led to his death by Propofol.

If you feel you must have a benzo for anxiety or whatever, do what you must, but realize the danger you are in by doing so, and be very, very careful. These drugs are famous for causing the exact problem they are used to treat.

 

[geraldt52]

Well, if you quit cold turkey, then I can understand your point of view. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm doing "better" by increasing my gaba intake (I take it under the tongue), and also adding some inositol. As for 'swapping benzos', that's the advice recommended by one of the world's authorities on getting off of them, Dr. Heather Ashton, also mentioned earlier in this thread. I would love to do that, but my medicaid doc won't cooperate.

I won't contest Dr. Ashton's opinion, but I wouldn't let the fact that you can't get Valium stop you from tapering off of Klonopin...if that's what you want to do. It might be more difficult, but it's still doable.

 

[Dreambirdie]

For those who have been on a benzo for an extended period of time with no problems, I would just caution you that I would have said exactly the same thing, right up until the time they blew up in my face, big time. You won't know you're in danger until it is too late.

If anybody wonders how Michael Jackson could have ended up where he ended up, and did what he did with Propofol, the answer is the misuse of benzos...under a doctor's "care". Anyone who has gone without sleep for 4 or 5 days straight will understand the desperation that led to his death by Propofol.

If you feel you must have a benzo for anxiety or whatever, do what you must, but realize the danger you are in by doing so, and be very, very careful. These drugs are famous for causing the exact problem they are used to treat.

Yes.... UNTIL THEY BLEW UP IN MY FACE is what happened to me. I was taking the lorazepam only intermittently, not ever more than once a week, and usually just once/twice a month. I never expected that this would cause any serious problems. Then one day.... without any prior warning, the sh-t hit the fan and I was sent down into the pit of 24/7 anxiety/panic benzo hell.

You are playing with a truckload of explosives when you take a benzo.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I won't contest Dr. Ashton's opinion, but I wouldn't let the fact that you can't get Valium stop you from tapering off of Klonopin...if that's what you want to do. It might be more difficult, but it's still doable.

This is a good point @dannybex. If you are already developing a dependency, then you should act sooner than later. Wait too long and your anxiety might be multiplied exponentially.

 

[misskatniss]

@Dreambirdie A mindful doctor in fact told my friend that she would risk dependency even if taking 20 pills of Lorazepam in a period of 3 monthes!! My friend could hardly believe it. I think there´s nothing more to say about the risk, and I really blame any professional neglecting that risk / making people believe there might be sth like safe benzo use.

And a tiny little observation I can´t but write down here either: Very often the mechanism via wich a drug works is not even very well known. So how could they reliably judge on what risks occur?? I could tell long stories about SSRIs,too, or neuroleptics, or even Propofol. (Many of you could so, too).

I got herbal tea prescribed from a homeopathic doc a couple of weeks ago, and even that turned out to be considered livertoxic in the dose she proposed! What can I say - I consider every substance a risk before taking it and try to get informed. Not in the paranoid but in the informed-consumer kind of way. In fact if I hadn´t done so, noone in the psychiatric hospital would have had the same concerns about the benzos.

When I was in the normal hospital, another patient in my room told me: "Whatever pill they give to you: Always ask, what is this and what is it for? Because, it is you to swallow it and live with the consequences. I have been through hell as they confused my meds with them of another patient, and since then, I always ask. Do the same!"

That´s what I do

 

[Dreambirdie]

@misskatniss NO MORE pharma drugs for me!

I have a very good TCM practitioner and his herbs have never caused an adverse effect that lasted longer than 24-48 hours. When that has happened, all it took was stopping it for 2 days, and then cutting the dose. There were never any lasting negative effects.

 

[dannybex]

I won't contest Dr. Ashton's opinion, but I wouldn't let the fact that you can't get Valium stop you from tapering off of Klonopin...if that's what you want to do. It might be more difficult, but it's still doable.

The thing is, my anxiety got much worse (and the clonazepam seemed to be less effective) precisely when my sinus infection and the resulting overall inflammation, took off, about six months ago. That's why I'm curious if it's just not being absorbed or metabolized because of the overall sinus and gut issues.


And of course I want to do it -- I don't know how many times I have to say that. But using valium was much easier (and that was 5-6 years ago when I was in better physically) because of it's longer half-life, and the fact it can be broken down into distinct milligram dosages so one can monitor one's progress. There's a thread somewhere here from 2011 -- I had decreased the dose by 80%, when the doctor suddenly decided it was taking too long, and switched me back.

 

[dannybex]

Did you see this DB? Sounds like she had the same paradoxical reaction…

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/489358_3

 

[Ema]

Rather than banning all benzos, I think science needs to find a better way to predict who will have a terrible experience and/or withdrawal. Obviously there is something different going on in the brains of the people who suffer upon discontinuation and the people who don't.

I took Valium for approximately the same length of time almost 15 years ago at a similar dose and stopped cold turkey (didn't know any better) with no problems. I was nearly healthy then though and clearly something has changed now in my brain. Intolerance to Valium is but one symptom of this.

That's why I'd like to know more about this antibody theory. Seems like that could be something to be measured prior to starting treatment to predict response perhaps.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Did you see this DB? Sounds like she had the same paradoxical reaction…
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/489358_3

I don't want to join in order to have to read it, so I will take your word for it.

 

[dannybex]

I understand. The abstract is available without having to join up…

Anyway, good luck to all on their journeys.

 

[heapsreal]

I read that benzos only make you sleep more - but sleep quality is said to be poor. I do not claim that for everyone, but I can tell that benzo-induced sleep is longer yet no more restoring than sleep without, for me. So I got rid of the meds, also because antidepressants and neuroleptics cause restless legs in me and I was aware of the addiction risk with benzos.

Most of the people i have communicated with from here who use benzos for sleep realise that sleep quality isnt the same as natural sleep and that they increase sleep quantity. But many of us who use them take them because they cant get quality or the quantity of sleep. When your getting maybe an hour or 2 of light dreamy crappy type sleep and using a benzos can give you 5-6 hours sleep, it greatly improves ones function.

I think if one doesnt have an obligation like work etc then i guess one can sleep when they can or want too and just go by their body clock. I think many of us who are still able to work use sleep meds to fit into a 'normal' type life to function.

I agree with @Ema that they need to develop a test to see who is going to have issues with benzo's. I have been on benzos too and about this time last year stopped for 2 weeks, i didnt have any suffer type withdrawals, i just had crap sleep that was showing my body clock was messed up and not working, i also took a boat load of supplements for sleep and used antihistamines to try to sleep.

I also think they need to aggressively research more into sleep medicine and develop better medications for people with chronic insomnia. I think orexin(sleep med in development) has been in the pipe line for a long time but still not on the market yet.

I think instead of bagging benzo's, we should be demanding better safe treatments for chronic insomnia and not some psychological crap. I think for many of us that we possibly have some sort of damage to the sleep centre in our brain??

 

[minkeygirl]

I discovered when I was getting off Klonopin a few years ago that many doctors prescribe the wrong benzo. Ativan and xanax are not for sleep, they are anxiety meds.

And docs think to stop you can just cut it by 1/2 and then half again and you're fine. They have no clue about protracted withdrawal and the suffering. I didn't sleep more than 2 hours a night for year after the 4 months it took me to get off 1 mg of klonopin.

@heapsreal maybe your withdrawal was the crap sleep.

 

[heapsreal]

I discovered when I was getting off Klonopin a few years ago that many doctors prescribe the wrong benzo. Ativan and xanax are not for sleep, they are anxiety meds.

And docs think to stop you can just cut it by 1/2 and then half again and you're fine. They have no clue about protracted withdrawal and the suffering. I didn't sleep more than 2 hours a night for year after the 4 months it took me to get off 1 mg of klonopin.

@heapsreal maybe your withdrawal was the crap sleep.

Maybe was the crap sleep was withdrawal but i think thats expected when one stops. But seemed no different to this before i started any benzo. I was thinking the increased anxiety people mention and brains zaps etc. I just didnt get that. I think there is a group that dont have issues with benzos. I did get into a pattern of sleep, but 5am to 11am just doesnt fit into a schedule where one has to function for work.

we need more research into sleep medicine.

 

[minkeygirl]

Maybe you were one of the lucky ones. I know I had serious issues with sleep from withdrawal from Klono and xanax. And other's i knew who swore they didn't have withdrawal after stopping cold turkey and just thought their not sleeping was normal for them vs. withdrawal. Not saying that about you, just from what others have told me.

Even if you don't have to work, you still have to function on some level to at least take care of our basic needs. But no matter, not sleeping blows.

 

[Dreambirdie]

we need more research into sleep medicine.

That would certainly be helpful.

 

[geraldt52]

Rather than banning all benzos, I think science needs to find a better way to predict who will have a terrible experience and/or withdrawal. Obviously there is something different going on in the brains of the people who suffer upon discontinuation and the people who don't...

That's why I'd like to know more about this antibody theory. Seems like that could be something to be measured prior to starting treatment to predict response perhaps.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely that anyone is going to spend any time or money studying benzos, as they are old drugs, selling by the truckload, and the powers that be seem perfectly happy with that.

My personal opinion is that the answer wouldn't end up being "who" will have a terrible experience, but "when" you will have a terrible experience. I think benzos lay a very subtle trap, and often people don't even know that they're in it, and attribute what they are experiencing to other things.

 

[misskatniss]

I don´t think that there is simply a damage to the sleep centre in the brain. As in the brain all is interdependent, I think what we suffer from impairs many functions, also sleep. That we are left alone with just trying tu cure the single symptoms is because we still do not know what affects us. Yes, more sleep research needs to be done, but even more research regarding the causes of our situation - I think insomnia is mainly an effect not the cause. Yet not sure about it... just my idea...

 

[misskatniss]

@geraldt52 absolutely agree!!

 

[Dreambirdie]

My personal opinion is that the answer wouldn't end up being "who" will have a terrible experience, but "when" you will have a terrible experience. I think benzos lay a very subtle trap, and often people don't even know that they're in it, and attribute what they are experiencing to other things.

Yes... subtle trap... with not so subtle (as in HORRID!) consequences.