High-Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

[end]

That's interesting, @end. I think you are the first person on this thread that experienced the same sort of benefits as I did with selenium. Most people here reported that selenium unfortunately caused them too much mental stimulation, such that they could not continue taking it.


What I notice is that if I stop taking selenium, quite quickly, after around 3 or 4 days, I will start to feel worse again. I have tried stopping on many occasions, and I always this this same result of feeling worse after around 3 or 4 days.

@Hip maybe our similarities in infection type has something to do with us reacting in a similar manner to Se?

As I understand Dr Chia has read your website and believes you have an Enterovirus/s and like you know I have had Dr Chia's VP1 Enterovirus test come in as Strongly Positive

 

[end]

My experiments with selenium in the past led me too feel too dampened psychologically. Hard to describe but I guess you could say it induces a brain fog and reduces my pleasure. I did it for things along the lines of brain antioxidant in particular I think it protects against amphetamine induced toxicity. Not that I was taking amphetamines, only coffee. Though I thought it would be a good idea.

All I could offer as a possible explanation is Se acts as an antibiofilm agent(there is current research indicating Se coating implanted devises drastically reduce biofilm formation)

The break down of pathogenic biofilms usually results in a herx reaction which seems to mirror what you relay??

 

[Hip]

@Hip maybe our similarities in infection type has something to do with us reacting in a similar manner to Se?

As I understand Dr Chia has read your website and believes you have an Enterovirus/s and like you know I have had Dr Chia's VP1 Enterovirus test come in as Strongly Positive

Could well be something like that. I found several studies (listed in the first post of this thread) showing that selenium has good antiviral effects against enteroviruses, so perhaps as you say the benefits of selenium are more pronounced in those with enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. Selenium does have some modest antiviral effects against EBV though.†

 

[knackers323]

Could well be something like that. I found several studies (listed in the first post of this thread) showing that selenium has good antiviral effects against enteroviruses, so perhaps as you say the benefits of selenium are more pronounced in those with enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. Selenium does have some modest antiviral effects against EBV though.†

Selenium helps me and I have a positive titre to enterovirus.

 

[knackers323]

@Jonathan Edwards do you have any thoughts on why selenium may be helping us?

It seems like it could be for many reasons. What testing would you suggest to find out why it is helping?

Thanks

Hi @Jonathan Edwards just bumping this as I would like to hear your opinion on it. Thanks

 

[Hip]

just bumping this as I would like to hear your opinion on it. Thanks

Why? Almost nobody seems to benefit from selenium, and instead most find that selenium has an overstimulating effect on the mind.

 

[adreno]

Hi @Jonathan Edwards just bumping this as I would like to hear your opinion on it. Thanks

I could be wrong, but I don't think selenium supplementation is in the Professor's expertise or interest.

 

[knackers323]

Why? Almost nobody seems to benefit from selenium, and instead most find that selenium has an overstimulating effect on the mind.

Ha ha. Why do you think

 

[ukxmrv]

I didn't find selenium overstimulating or get any benefits from it. I have a positive VP1 test from the late 80s in the UK under Prof Mowbray.

Selenium was in the standard ME treatment plans of the 80's and 90's. Very common to have that suggested to us by doctors and other practitioners.

 

[Hip]

I didn't find selenium overstimulating or get any benefits from it. I have a positive VP1 test from the late 80s in the UK under Prof Mowbray.

Selenium was in the standard ME treatment plans of the 80's and 90's. Very common to have that suggested to us by doctors and other practitioners.

That's interesting to hear, ukxmrv. I was not aware that selenium was a recognized ME/CFS treatment, or at least suggested treatment.

 

[ukxmrv]

It was used well before this lecture by Dr Cheney in 1998 as well. Selenium and zinc.

http://www.ncf-net.org/conference/CheneyLecture.htm

"Level Three

Antioxident Therapy - Under heavy oxidative stress the antioxidants shovel free electrons into a bioflavinoid buffer. The problem is if we are deficient in bioflavinoids the free electrons will simply be freed again to cause more damage. We need to take bioflavinoids as well as antioxidents. Beware of iron and copper supplements. These minerals cause free radicals. One evidence of this is that the best protection against heart disease is donating blood twice a year or menstuating every month. This reduces iron levels in the blood. Selenium and zinc were minerals which Cheney recommended as functioning to reduce free radicals. "

My 1980's doctor had an interest in low thyroid functioning as well, which is maybe why he was using on his ME patients back then. He was also aware of the entroviral connection through the work of Dr Richardson.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...kQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=selenium myalgic&f=false

 

[end]

It was used well before this lecture by Dr Cheney in 1998 as well. Selenium and zinc.

http://www.ncf-net.org/conference/CheneyLecture.htm

"Level Three

Antioxident Therapy - Under heavy oxidative stress the antioxidants shovel free electrons into a bioflavinoid buffer. The problem is if we are deficient in bioflavinoids the free electrons will simply be freed again to cause more damage. We need to take bioflavinoids as well as antioxidents. Beware of iron and copper supplements. These minerals cause free radicals. One evidence of this is that the best protection against heart disease is donating blood twice a year or menstuating every month. This reduces iron levels in the blood. Selenium and zinc were minerals which Cheney recommended as functioning to reduce free radicals. "

My 1980's doctor had an interest in low thyroid functioning as well, which is maybe why he was using on his ME patients back then. He was also aware of the entroviral connection through the work of Dr Richardson.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nshvu-ORoJcC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=selenium myalgic&source=bl&ots=DUSUicBqsx&sig=fDo4JdMUy9vftQ-R_svL5A0ei8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q0AgVMrTE8PpaIXUgbAB&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=selenium myalgic&f=false

"Zinc, Selenium, Potassium, Glutamine, Calcium & Magnesium - These are important in fighting off viral infections."

-Just because Se did nothing for you like you outlined, it does not mean Se isn't important or won't help others with recently diagnosed EV infections

KDM in the past has recommended Quercetin for EV infections which is another compound the Enterovirus Foundation lists. Of note I have been finding Quercetin highly effective recently

Large dose fish oil has been symptomatic as well

Proboost has been helpfull but an expensive exercise


http://www.enterovirusfoundation.org/immuneboosters.shtml

The Enterovirus Foundation advises individuals to consult a physician before talking any medication, supplement or alternative treatment.

Immune Boosters
ProBoost - Thymic Protein A - This is a synthetic version of the protein made in the thymus that helps CD4 cells mature and differentiate. It was developed by Terry Beardsley, PhD, from Baylor College in Texas, and is sold as a nutraceutical. It has been tested in two small uncontrolled trials of chronic viral illness patients and AIDS patients, and was shown to increase CD4 count and normalize other immune markers such as elevated antiviral pathways. http://www.proboostmed.com/research.html

ImmunoPro - This product is reported to have antiviral properties in addition to immune modulating effects. It is a combination of denatured whey, lactoferrin, active peptides, transfer factors, and immunoglobulins, and is said to be a potent stimulant of glutathione. The product contains high levels of cysteine and other amino acids that are precursors to glutathione. The compound is also supposed to shift cytokines toward a th1 profile. http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/proddesc/products/immunopro.htm

Imunovir - Immunomodulator. This is a prescription drug that is not approved in the US but is used extensively in Eastern Europe and Russia as an antiviral treatment. It is also used in the US with special permission, on a case-by-case basis, for SSPE (chronic measles encephalitis) because nothing else works for it. It can be legally imported to the US from pharmacies overseas with a prescription.http://www.rivexpharma.com/products_imunovir.html

Zadaxin - This is an immune stimulant made by SciCline Pharmaceuticals in California, and marketed in 30 countries. It is not yet approved in the US; however, it is in Phase III trials. Zadaxin is a synthetic version of thymosin alpha, a substance produced by the body's thymus to stimulate T cells and NK cells. It can be legally imported to the US from pharmacies overseas with a prescription. It involves injection with an insulin needle twice per week. http://www.scicloneinternational.com/zadaxin.shtml

Equilibrant is an all-natural dietary supplement that supports a healthy immune system. Its unique nutrient rich formula is composed of vitamins, selenium, and a proprietary blend of herbal extracts. Unlike other immune "stimulants" or "modulators", Equiliabrant works by balancing the immune response to the appropriate direction. Made in the United States under GMP standards. Coming soon.http://www.equilibranthealth.com.

D-ribose - D-Ribofuranose (D-ribose) is a five-carbon monosaccharide that is made in cells and stimulates the metabolic pathway used to make a class of compounds called purines and pyrimidines. These compounds are essential for the body's production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). It is reported to have direct antiviral effects. D-ribose is widely used to boost energy and treat heart disease.http://www.corvalen.com/Dietary_Supps.html

High dose EPA - Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is one of the active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil. An Israeli study of 20 patients with major depression found that EPA resulted in "highly significant benefits" compared to a placebo by week three. Virally ill patients may be benefit from this as well.

Vitamin D - Vitamin D produces a peptide that is important for cell mediated immunity and antiviral defenses. Patients with Multiple Sclerosis and Parkinson Disease tend to have low Vitamin D levels, and viruses have long been suspected in both conditions. Depending on the condition, physicians may recommend 3000-5000 IUs daily.

Lysine - This is reported to be a natural antiviral, and is used widely for cold sores and ulcerations.

Quercetin - This is found to be the most active of the flavonoids in studies, and many medicinal plants owe much of their activity to their high quercetin content. Quercetin has demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory activity because of direct inhibition of several initial processes of inflammation. For example, it inhibits both the manufacture and release of histamine and other allergic/inflammatory mediators. It also exerts potent antioxidant activity and vitamin C-sparing action. Quercetin has been shown to be a good treatment option for interstitial cystitis.

Zinc, Selenium, Potassium, Glutamine, Calcium & Magnesium - These are important in fighting off viral infections.

 

[knackers323]

Don't know if it's been mentioned or not but could it be that the selenium is helping to convert T4 to T3?

 

[optimist]

I started taking 8 Brazil Nuts today - they have a funny taste I hope I am not intolerant to them. I am eating 6-9 eggs a day, and I see that an egg has about 15 mg SE, so I guess I will need to remove about two of nuts from the daily dosage.

 

[optimist]

Could be worth to notice this section in Wikipedia on Brazil Nuts:

Despite the possible health benefits of the nut, the European Union has imposed strict regulations on the import from Brazil of Brazil nuts in their shells, as the shells have been found to contain high levels of aflatoxins, which can lead to liver cancer.[18]
Brazil nuts contain small amounts of radium. Although the amount of radium, a radioactive element, is very small, about 1–7 nCi/g[19] (40–260 Bq/kg), and most of it is not retained by the body, this is 1000 times higher than in other foods. According to Oak Ridge Associated Universities, this is not because of elevated levels of radium in the soil, but due to "the very extensive root system of the tree."[20]

 

[Gingergrrl]

Why? Almost nobody seems to benefit from selenium, and instead most find that selenium has an overstimulating effect on the mind.

@Hip, I didn't read this entire thread (only beginning and end parts) but if I am understanding it correctly, it seems like you initially found great benefit from Selenium but now are saying that no one benefits from it and it is over-stimulating? Can you confirm if this was your experience and if you still take it? I am going to start taking it both for my thyroid and anti-viral properties although at 200 mcg (not 400 mcg as you first endorsed.) I would love to hear your thoughts on this as I know you are up to date on current research. Thanks!

 

[Hip]

@Gingergrrl
No, I consistently find significant benefits from taking 400 mcg of yeast free selenomethionine each day on an empty stomach, and have taken this for several years now.

However, the majority of people on this thread who tried selenium found it mentally over-stimulating for reasons which I have not been able to work out, and also did not report the benefits I observed of reduced fatigue and reduced brain fog.

Interestingly, though, the people on this thread who did benefit from selenium as I did are those who seem to have enterovirus-associated ME/CFS, which makes sense, as the studies I cited at the beginning of this thread found selenium has antiviral benefits for enterovirus infection.

 

[Revel]

I have put off sharing my selenium story, largely because not only does it not relate to CFS/ME, but it doesn't even involve our own species!

So, you have been forewarned and I apologise in advance for going somewhat off track. However, some of you may find it of interest . . .

Prior to giving up work due to ill health, I managed a calf unit on a dairy farm. During my last season I arrived at a unit which was encountering problems. The standard of husbandry was excellent, and yet the calves were underperforming. Their daily liveweight gain was slow and many were suffering from minor respiratory and digestive ailments, not enough to cause their demise, but sufficient to make them feel miserable.

I called in the vet, who could find nothing amiss, but he took a batch of random blood samples. The results showed that across the board the calves immune system was extremely poor.

When calves are born they have no immunity and must receive the necessary antibodies via their mother's colostrum within a specific 'window' of time, whilst their gut is still very permeable and able to allow large molecules to pass through.

The colostrum was tested and found to be of good quality but the calves were unable to absorb it in sufficient quantity to fire up their immune system (there can be a number of reasons for this, largely due to genetics, which I won't go into here).

The vet was stumped as to how to improve the situation. I went home and began to research late into the night.

Eventually I came across a study that used the addition of selenium to colostrum to increase Immunoglobulin G (IgG) absorption by newborn calves. It was an impressive read. The findings concluded that "the phenomenon could not be explained by any identified function of selenium. Increased IgG and Se in blood plasma could contribute to improve resistance to infectious diseases in postnatal calves and reduce the attrition rate".

The selenium appeared to assist large molecules, such as IgG, across the gut whilst it is still permeable. No further effect was found by extending dosage beyond the permeable stage.

After running it by the vet first, I decided to trial the selenium on the next batch of new calves into the unit. Blood samples were taken again 6 weeks later and the results were astonishing. Those that had received the selenium not only had significantly boosted levels of immunity but were also visibly in better health than the controls.

Neither the newborn calves nor their dams were nutritionally deficient in selenium and only a single dose was given (within the 'window').

I wonder whether those of us with a leaky (overly permeable) gut may have a different experience when using selenium to those who do not?

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Hip Thank you for explaining all that and @Revel, great story about the cows... Did you ever end up trying Selenium yourself for GI or immune issues?

 

[Revel]

@Gingergrrl, no, I haven't experimented with selenium so far.

With my dodgy guts I would be concerned about what large molecules it might "assist" through into my bloodstream. I'm not too sure how selective it would be!