High dose folate, B2 and elevation of ammonia and uric acid (for dummies)

[ebethc]

It contains a ton of aminoacids that upon digestion will increase ammonia if you are inside that vicious circle.
Freddd warns against whey I think because it can raise glutathione too quickly, depleting MB12/folate.

Since you have so many +/+CBS, this can make ammonia worse and I think you would benefit from reading this thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...h-preventing-methylfolate-side-effects.34025/

I can try to list for you what helped me when I was in the ammonia hole last year:

• I stopped all supplements and took only magnesium oxide to bowel tolerance for 5-6 weeks
• sodium bicarbonate baths - I read that candida likes alkaline and viruses like acidic environments, since EBV seems to be an issue, the baths could be beneficial for you. Always start low and build up tolerance. I would say to start with 1/2 or 1 Tbsp for foot bath and 2 Tbsp for a bath. Also using bicarb as a shower scrub is a way of getting used to it.
• Saccharomyces boulardii once capsule before bed every other day for a few days and then alternate it with a probiotic that works for you. Avoid Lactobacillus acidophilus since they increase acidity too much.

Mb12 and folate will increase acidity because from MB12 there will be more ammonia generation and from folate more uric acid. The kidneys will need extra buffering electrolytes like magnesium and sodium bicarb.

@ebethc what are your uric acid levels?

thanks for the info!
I believe that I am EXTREMELY low in glutathione... I get sick ALL the time, and the duration & intensity of my colds/flus are worse that normal... I'm taking M.F. & MB12 now so the whey shouldn't cause problems there....

I will be sure to take electrolytes consistently (not doing that now..) & same w bicarb baths.... this should help w ammonia, from what i understand about your post.

S Boulardii makes me feel sick.. interesting about the L Acidopholus.... maybe I'll try it again.. "on paper" S Boulardii should be a big help for me

 

[MeSci]

I get sick ALL the time, and the duration & intensity of my colds/flus are worse that normal...

Do you know for sure that these are colds/flu? I see you seem to have been ill for such a long time, and a lot of us long-timers tend not to get colds or flu. I haven't had one for many years - except possibly now, which may be a good sign!

PEM has much the same symptoms as colds and flu.

added later

There is a poll here, which I couldn't find earlier, about getting colds and flu since getting ME.

 

[ebethc]

Do you know for sure that these are colds/flu? I see you seem to have been ill for such a long time, and a lot of us long-timers tend not to get colds or flu. I haven't had one for many years - except possibly now, which may be a good sign!

PEM has much the same symptoms as colds and flu.

added later

There is a poll here, which I couldn't find earlier, about getting colds and flu since getting ME.

It's both... I get run down A LOT.... I do get colds / flus... This winter I had the flu for 2 months straight, and there's no doubt that it was a virus..

Yes, I've read about the folks who do not get sick... that's really counter- interuitive

 

[MeSci]

It's both... I get run down A LOT.... I do get colds / flus... This winter I had the flu for 2 months straight, and there's no doubt that it was a virus..

Yes, I've read about the folks who do not get sick... that's really counter- interuitive

We get pretty sick, but it's PEM and not colds/ flu for most of us. I don't find it counter-intuitive. We have abnormalities in our immune system, so either we are able to fight off viruses easily due to the over-active parts of the system, or we just don't mount a normal immune response to pathogens. It's the immune response that is the cause of most flu-cold symptoms.

 

[ebethc]

We get pretty sick, but it's PEM and not colds/ flu for most of us. I don't find it counter-intuitive. We have abnormalities in our immune system, so either we are able to fight off viruses easily due to the over-active parts of the system, or we just don't mount a normal immune response to pathogens. It's the immune response that is the cause of most flu-cold symptoms.

I get both (PEM/really run down, and colds/flus). Every crash I've had requires LOTS of rest (best "medicine"), and supplements, sometimes medicine...Acupuncture used to do wonders, but not anymore... I'm adopted so my family doesn't understand at all... They just treat me like i'm crazy! I met my birth family, and they have similar problems

 

[Gondwanaland]

Beth, I know very little about your situation, but I think if you feel that why helps, stick with it.

At this point I don't know if you should keep taking the methylation supps, do they help you?

I am feeling better just for having found the proper thyroid support, and now I will try to focus on my gut. It is pointless to insist with supplements when the thyroid and the gut aren't working properly (see caledonia's document Roadblocks linked in my sig "Freddd's protocol")

 

[ebethc]

Beth, I know very little about your situation, but I think if you feel that why helps, stick with it.

At this point I don't know if you should keep taking the methylation supps, do they help you?

I am feeling better just for having found the proper thyroid support, and now I will try to focus on my gut. It is pointless to insist with supplements when the thyroid and the gut aren't working properly (see caledonia's document Roadblocks linked in my sig "Freddd's protocol")

What do you mean? I should just focus on gut?

MFolate, P5P & MB12 do seem to help.... I've put the other methylation supps on the on the back burner (like tmg, yucca, etc.).... Electrolytes are good..
I'm cautiously optimistic about Whey... It's too early to tell, and I'm concerned about what I've read re insulin... It makes it easier to cut out meat, which might be helpful for my digestion... we'll see.. I've always felt like glutathione would be helpful for me... injections of glutathione made me so sick, so hopefully whey can help.

My thyroid is optimized as best as I can get it... I feel like maybe my body has a hard time using thyroid, or related hormones... I'm SO sensitive to any kind of energy, like I have no boundaries at all.. (thyroid means "shield", which I find interesting..). I wish I could figure this out..Any weather makes me so sick. (too hot, too cold, high humidity - which is the problem where I currently live..)

I have to bring down all the inflammation in my body or I'm just going to get even sicker.... I did have mono in 2001, but I have lifelong problems.. Something shifted around kindergarten or 1st grade..

thanks for all your advice - especially over the past week! I have an interview on friday and I"ve GOT to get it together.. tired today, but only because I didn't sleep well last night.

 

[Gondwanaland]

MFolate, P5P & MB12 do seem to help....

That's good then. I am wary of the B vits myself and don't intend to retry them so soon. Mainly due to current currency conversion

Is sodium bicarbonate helping you?

 

[ebethc]

That's good then. I am wary of the B vits myself and don't intend to retry them so soon. Mainly due to current currency conversion

Is sodium bicarbonate helping you?

It feels good, but I wouldn't say it's a breakthrough

I wish I could find a way to get my body to consistently react to the TMG/SAM-e pathway... Any ideas?

 

[ebethc]

It feels good, but I wouldn't say it's a breakthrough

I wish I could find a way to get my body to consistently react to the TMG/SAM-e pathway... Any ideas?

also - is there any difference between taking the bicarb in the footbath vs a regular bath?

 

[MeSci]

I'm adopted so my family doesn't understand at all... They just treat me like i'm crazy! I met my birth family, and they have similar problems

I'm not adopted but often wished I had been. I think most of us get disbelief from our parents, but I had that from mine long before I got ME!

But by 'similar problems' I guess you mean ME or a related illness? There are at least 2 polls on this - e.g. this one and this one.

There was another one, that asked about 'autoimmune illnesses'. My father had rheumatoid arthritis, which appears to be related to ME.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Has anybody looked into a low purine diet? I have googled it today and put together many pieces of my puzzle

I have deliberately ingnored it all this time fearing an even more limited diet, but in the end it seems I have only been craving the wrong foods :thumbdown:

 

[ebethc]

Has anybody looked into a low purine diet? I have googled it today and put together many pieces of my puzzle

I have deliberately ingnored it all this time fearing an even more limited diet, but in the end it seems I have only been craving the wrong foods :thumbdown:

It's good for gout....which I don't have, so I never considered it.

However, I am thinking about FODMAP diet..Have you tried it?

 

[Gondwanaland]

It's good for gout....which I don't have, so I never considered it.

However, I am thinking about FODMAP diet..Have you tried it?

I don't have gout either, but apparently my uric acid can be easily raised, especially when I eat foods too high in salicylates.

No, I never tried a FODMAP diet.

 

[drob31]

Just to bump this, I had my ammonia levels tested and they were 30: ref: 27-90

 

[MeSci]

Just came across this page when researching something else. You may find this bit of interest for example:

Animal protein is also the major dietary source of purines, the precursors of uric acid. Excessive intake of animal protein is therefore associated with hyperuricosuria

 

[Gondwanaland]

Just came across this page when researching something else. You may find this bit of interest for example:

Thanks for posting that. I don't have the links right now, but for many people with high uric acid who went on a paleo diet, high UA resolved by lowering fructose intake.

High dietary intake of fructose contributes significantly to hyperuricemia.[14][15][16] In a large study in the United States, consumption of four or more sugar-sweetened soft drinks per day gave an odds ratio of 1.82 for hyperuricemia.[17] Increased production of uric acid is the result of interference, by a product of fructose metabolism, in purine metabolism. This interference has a dual action, both increasing the conversion of ATP to inosine and hence uric acid and increasing the synthesis of purine.[18] Fructose also inhibits the excretion of uric acid, apparently by competing with uric acid for access to the transport protein SLC2A9.[19] The effect of fructose in reducing excretion of uric acid is increased in people with a hereditary (genetic) predisposition toward hyperuricemia and/or gout.[18]

Source

 

[Katty]

This is how I gauged for bicarb need:
dissolve 1/8 tsp of sodium bicarb in one glass of water and make mouth swishes. You will know if you need more.
I actually never drank it, but it was a great relief for constant dry mouth and tongue.

Next step is to do a foot bath (alternatively you can also soak your hands).

Shower scrub.

Bicarb bath. Before a full immersion I recommend to test your urine pH. I jumped in the bathtub when mine was 4.5 in the evening.

I must thank @ahmo who taught me all this months ago.

I'm not a chemistry person so I have a question about the foot baths. If I want to add other vitamins, such as Vitamin C, would the C interact somehow with the baking soda to make either less effective? Any interactions with other vitamins or minerals in a foot bath I should be aware of?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'm not a chemistry person so I have a question about the foot baths. If I want to add other vitamins, such as Vitamin C, would the C interact somehow with the baking soda to make either less effective? Any interactions with other vitamins or minerals in a foot bath I should be aware of?

@ahmo has experience with it, but I would say to avoid calcium. When I added calcium to my foot baths, even though it would give an excellent night of sleep, it felt like there was cement in my calves' veins.

 

[Violeta]

Has anybody looked into a low purine diet? I have googled it today and put together many pieces of my puzzle

I have deliberately ingnored it all this time fearing an even more limited diet, but in the end it seems I have only been craving the wrong foods :thumbdown:

Yes, I had to do a low purine diet after waking up one morning with joint and tendon pain throughout my whole body. It was a good find, though, because then I found out that the periodic headaches I had for years were caused by uric acid in the bloodstream. Just recently I seem to be able to eat some foods with purines. I had been told that uric acid is an antioxidant, but didn't think that was why it caused problems. But since working on reducing oxidant levels, things do seem to be improving, but it's still possible that tomorrow I'll have to go back to a low purine diet.