Has vitamin K-2 (mk-4 or mk7) helped you ?

[Chocolove]

This is a very interesting article that discusses the necessary co-factors of vitamin K2... and the results of taking vitamin D in the absence of K2 (not good.)
https://rebelhealthtribe.com/vitamin-k2-often-ignored-and-misunderstood-powerhouse-of-health/

@realturbo You might be interested in the arguments for this brand of K2 as recommended by Michael Roesslein, Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner and CHEK Holistic Lifestyle Coach | Co-Founder of Rebel Health Tribe:

Introducing MegaQuinone – The World’s Most Complete Vitamin K2 Supplement

After working with MegasporeBiotic for the last year, and getting to interview and work with Kiran on a regular basis, I was very excited when I learned he was working with a team to develop the world’s best K2 supplement. He has been working with K2 for over 15 years, on the raw materials end of the supplement industry, helping several companies to develop their own K2 products. After years of making recommendations to these companies on how to optimize their products (and them not taking his advice), and many of their doctors who work with MegasporeBiotic requesting them to do so, he (along with his team) decided to produce a K2 product of their own.

Enter MegaQuinone, the world’s most complete Vitamin K2 product. There are a few main factors to consider with Vitamin K2 supplementation:

Vitamin K1 – As mentioned earlier, if one is deficient in K1 (most people are), and they take supplemental K2, the liver will essentially steal the K2 to satisfy its own needs. Therefore, they have included enough K1 in the product to satisfy the liver’s needs in even the most depleted individuals. This will insure the K2 is getting to where it needs to go throughout the body!

• Stability – K2 is a very sensitive, very active compound. It is sensitive to light and other variables, which can quickly degrade and reduce the potency of a product. Many K2 products on the market, when tested, show limited availability/functionality. MegaQuinone is the only all-natural pharmaceutcal-grade K2 product on the market with 100% potency guaranteed.
• Optimal Dose of K2 – 150mcg is generally the highest dose you’ll find in products currently on the market. (K2-7) However, the research points toward a level closer to 320mcg as the optimal dose. This dose has shown 97% carboxylation of proteins, which is a good measure of the effectiveness of a K2 supplement. (Re-read the first section of this article or watch the interview for info on carboxylation) This dose has been shown to be most beneficial in regards to increasing cardiac output, reducing neuropathy, and having positive effects on mitochondria/energy production – all without causing excessive build-up. (Too much of a good thing can be not-so-good!) MegaQuinone is the only K2 product on the market utilizing this optimal dose of 320mcg.
• Supportive Ingredients/Co-Factors – Like all vitamins/nutrients, etc… Vitamin K2 requires several co-factors to optimally perform its functions. Three main co-factors for Vitamin K2 are Magnesium, Zinc, and Boron. MegaQuinone is the only Vitamin K2 product on the market to include these essential co-factors in the optimal dosage – providing maximum effectiveness.

Here’s the bottom line: We get pitched almost daily by companies asking us to promote their supplements or products. As you know, we’re incredibly choosy with which products we put our name behind and we have to say “no” to more than 99% of those products.

 

[Chocolove]

“We found that vitamin K2 allows you to make more ATP,” Reid said. “When you measure ATP production you can see the oxygen consumption capacity of a cell. We found that addition of vitamin K2 to cells in culture improved their oxygen consumption ability by 60 percent. ...Mitochondria use oxygen in body to produce energy...”

In another collaborative study with the University of North Texas, findings confirmed, when vitamin K2 is added to a human diet, energy capacity can actually go up.

As per: http://dailydose.ttuhsc.edu/2016/september/vitamin-k.aspx

Altern Ther Health Med. 2017 Jul;23(4):26-32.
Oral Consumption of Vitamin K2 for 8 Weeks Associated With Increased Maximal Cardiac Output During Exercise.
McFarlin BK, Henning AL, Venable AS.
Abstract
Background • Vitamin K1 and K2 are not typically common in a Western diet because they are found in a variety of fermented foods. Vitamin K2 in particular has been demonstrated to restore mitochondrial function and has a key role in production of mitochondrial adenosine triphosphate.

Thus, it is reasonable to speculate that dietary supplementation with vitamin K2 could increase the function of muscle with high mitochondrial content (ie, skeletal and cardiac muscle).

Objective • The purpose of this study was to determine if 8 wk of dietary supplementation with Vitamin K2 could alter cardiovascular responses to a graded cycle ergometer test.

Design • The study was a randomized controlled trial. Setting • The study took place in the Applied Physiology Laboratory of the Department of Biological Sciences at the University of North Texas (Denton, TX, USA). Participants • Participants were aerobically trained males and female athletes (N = 26). Intervention • Participants were randomly assigned either to a control group that received a rice flour placebo or to an intervention group that received vitamin K2.

For weeks 1 to 4, participants received 300 mg/d; for weeks 5 to 8, they received 150 mg/d. Subjects assigned to the control group received similar doses to mirror the intervention group. Subjects consumed the supplements during an 8-wk period while they maintained their typical exercise habits.

Outcome Measures • At baseline and postintervention, participants completed a standard, graded exercise test on an electronically braked cycle ergometer. Before the test, participants were fitted with a mouth piece, and their oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide production, respiratory rate, and respiratory exchange ratio were measured. In addition, participants were fitted with skin-mounted electrodes that measured noninvasive cardiac output, stroke volume, and heart rate. To assess the cumulative exercise change, an area-under-the-curve (AUC) value was calculated separately for each outcome variable at each treatment time point.

Results • Vitamin K2 supplementation was associated with a 12% increase in maximal cardiac output, with P = .031, with a trend toward an increase in heart-rate AUC, with P = .070. No significant changes occurred in stroke volume.

Conclusions • Although vitamin K2 supplementation has previously been reported to improve cardiovascular function in diseased patients, to the research team's knowledge, the current study is the first to report its potential in active individuals. More research is needed to fully evaluate the potential effects of the observed effects.
PMID: 28646812

The aforementioned study used the product, MenaquinGold K2-7 by Nu Science Trading, according to this article:
http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...ight&utm_medium=OnSite&utm_campaign=copyright

 

[Chocolove]

Is K2 a big part of the "French Paradox"?
Figuring out why the French have low cardiovascular disease rates despite a diet high in saturated fats has spurred research and many theories to account for this phenomenon known as the “French paradox.” Most explanations have previously focused on wine and lifestyle, but a key role could belong to another French staple: cheese.

Cheese made with the right culture contains Vitamin K2 which, research shows, is important for calcium assimilation. The cheeses high in K2 are Gouda, Edam and Brie. Brie is a traditional French cheese and Gouda is a Dutch cheese. Apr 12, 2016
Vitamin K2 & The French Paradox | Healthy Valley Organics
https://www.healthyvalleyorganics.com.au/health.../vitamin-k2-the-french-paradox/

@realturbo Here's a new product that may soon be available in your area:
NattoPharma debuts 'full spectrum' form of Vitamin K2 to mimic what's found in cheese
By Hank SchultzHank Schultz, 22-Sep-2017
http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...of-Vitamin-K2-to-mimic-what-s-found-in-cheese

Cheese: A Nutritional Powerhouse That Helps Protect You
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/06/.../heart-healthy-cheese.aspx

Jun 17, 2013 - In my interview with Dr. Rheamue-Bleue, she identified the cheeses highest in K2 are Gouda and Brie, which contain about 75 mcg per ounce.

 

[Chocolove]

Here is an excellent link referenced overview of the research on vitamin K2:
http://www.lmreview.com/articles/pr...Prevention-of-Age-Associated-Chronic-Disease/
This review concludes that Supplementation with Physiological Doses of Vitamin K -- K1 plus MK-7 -- Rather than Pharmacological Doses of MK-4, May Be Preferable.

 

[Sidereal]

@Chocolove, interesting re: increase in cardiac output with K2 supplementation. I experienced this during the initial 3-4 weeks of supplementation with the Thorne MK4 product. My exercise capacity inexplicably jumped practically overnight. However, the effect wore off over time, as it does with most things.

 

[Chocolove]

The study at North Texas looked at 19 young volunteers and gave them vitamin K2 supplements for 6 weeks. When the volunteers were then tested, their cardiac output improvement was equivalent to 6 months of extensive physical training.

interesting re: increase in cardiac output with K2 supplementation. I experienced this during the initial 3-4 weeks of supplementation with the Thorne MK4 product. My exercise capacity inexplicably jumped practically overnight. However, the effect wore off over time, as it does with most things.

Are you still taking vitamin K2?

@Sidereal Standard knee jerk thought process response from me ; maybe rate limiting factors: I wonder if the exercise capacity increase is sustainable with additional vitamins A and D, plus magnesium, zinc and boron...
Vitamin A depletion causes oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction ...
www.fasebj.org/content/22/11/3878.abstract
by HJ Chiu - ‎2008 - ‎Cited by 52 - ‎Related articles
Aug 1, 2008 - Vitamin A depletion causes oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and PARP-1-dependent energy deprivation ... CR-108, a novel vitamin K derivative induces apoptosis through ROS and mitochondrial dysfunction in ...

Perhaps other co-factors which might have been depleted through the use of the K2? In looking at mitochondrial disease there are some other factors listed here:
http://mitochondrialdiseases.org/wp...for-Mitochondrial-Disease-Dr.-Bruce-Cohen.pdf

Or the lack of additional mitochondria which would have been created by (the non-existent) exercise limited further increase. Or the body simply prioritized something else to repair or process... Or dosage of K2... Or...

But then there is this article which examines vitamin K2 with regard to energy from fat metabolism:
https://www.intechopen.com/books/vi...the-impact-of-vitamin-k2-on-energy-metabolism

@realturbo You might be interested in this combo K2 supplement with co-factors:
MitoForce - Mitochondrial Energy Support - Nutritional Supplement ...
www.holisticheal.com/mitoforce-mitochondrial-support.html
Vitamin E (as Succinate), 8.3 IU. Vitamin K (as Phytonadione, Menaquinone-4 & Menaquinone-7, 95mcg. Vitamin B2 (as Riboflavin-5-phosphate), 3mg. Vitamin ...

http://www.kintera.org/site/c.8qKOJ0MvF7LUG/b.8047543/k.392D/Financial_Help_for_Supplements.htm

Mighty Mitochondria. The bacteria are having their say through the Mito Action Group...
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bil...&DocNum=1515&GAID=13&SessionID=88&LegID=88177

http://www.mitoaction.org/files/hb977-mitochondrial-disease-.pdf

 

[Sidereal]

Are you still taking vitamin K2?

Occasionally.

Depletion of A & D were definitely a problem, and surprisingly early on at that. Boron was a scary experience. One dose caused a profound weakness lasting a day or two.

 

[Chocolove]

@Sidereal Interesting about boron. I'm getting plenty of boron through prunes. My main source of vitamin A is liver and sometimes I really respond to liver and end up eating quite a lot. I figured out from my genetics that I was lacking in vitamin A with quite a few genes blocking any conversion of carotene to A...not that genetics really mattered since conversion of carotene to A is really low.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Depletion of A & D were definitely a problem,

Could you please give a few examples of issues?

 

[Sidereal]

Could you please give a few examples of issues?

Sure.

Vit A deficiency was worsening eyesight.

Vit D - normally not tolerated even in tiniest doses. After a while on K2 I suddenly got a huge calcium deficiency which refused to resolve itself with Ca supplementation until I added some D3, which is logical. What surprised me was that D supplementation was tolerated for the first time in my life.

K2 deficiency - the main symptom was teeth losing their white colour and turning kinda greyish. Also plaque.

 

[Chocolove]

Warning for those thinking they will be safe by taking supplements containing vitamin A:
Check the fine print on your bottle. You will most likely find that it is carotene Not vitamin A. Since too much real A can be toxic they usually just put in carotene. Taking vitamin D3 will help prevent toxicity from too much A.

Failure to tolerate vitamin D3 may indicate low vitamin A. They seem to counterbalance each other.

 

[Chocolove]

This is an interesting Multi vitamin/mineral plant complex that contains vitamin K2 in MK-7 form:
https://www.brainmdhealth.com/brain-and-body-power

For anyone feeling adventurous they apparently have a free trial:
https://www.brainmdhealth.com/free-trial

It is certainly cheaper to get all these different supplements in one combo than buying separate bottles of each. But if you have a bad reaction, the number of ingredients makes it hard to decipher what you are reacting to.

 

[Chocolove]

Boron was a scary experience. One dose caused a profound weakness lasting a day or two.

Perhaps the boron depleted riboflavin B2?
Vitamin B2 - Health Facts
www.ndhealthfacts.org/wiki/Vitamin_B2
Mar 17, 2014 - Anticonvulsant Medications and Related Barbiturates - Drug may alter riboflavin metabolism and interfere with activity of riboflavin-related enzymes and deplete the vitamin. ... Boric Acid, Borate, and Boron - Drug tends to complex with vitamin B2 and thereby reduce absorption and increase urinary excretion.

 

[Gondwanaland]

vitamin K2 in MK-7 form

I took MK7 for 30 days back in 2013 and couldn't notice benefits. OTOH I took 1 dose of MK4 back in 2015 and had a huge response (both good and bad as already described). When I tried D3+MK4 all I got was insomnia.

 

[Sidereal]

Perhaps the boron depleted riboflavin B2?
Vitamin B2 - Health Facts
www.ndhealthfacts.org/wiki/Vitamin_B2
Mar 17, 2014 - Anticonvulsant Medications and Related Barbiturates - Drug may alter riboflavin metabolism and interfere with activity of riboflavin-related enzymes and deplete the vitamin. ... Boric Acid, Borate, and Boron - Drug tends to complex with vitamin B2 and thereby reduce absorption and increase urinary excretion.

I don't think so. I was taking loads of sublingual B2 at the time.

 

[Chocolove]

Here is a report of bad reaction to vitamin K2 supplementation on another forum:
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68130-weird-reaction-to-vitamin-k2/

 

[Asklipia]

His problem maybe has to do with Thiamine Deficiency. There is a link with nitric oxide.
The reverse of the folate problem. Sorry no time to write

 

[Gondwanaland]

Here is a report of bad reaction to vitamin K2 supplementation on another forum:
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/68130-weird-reaction-to-vitamin-k2/

I took the same brand as his. Powerful stuff. Thorne apparently has much milder (side)effects at higher doses.

I think somehow K2 is linked with glycine metabolism

 

[Batter]

Anyone with elevated Calcium in blood tried K2 (probably hyper parathyroidism)?
Last 6 months I was struggling with digestive problems and fatigue. Weight loss.
Blood tests showed only elevated Calcium 10.3 and more recent 10.6. Doctor's didn't know what causing that.
I have tried Vit D3 but only sleep problems and heart palpitations worsened.
Just recently I have tried NOW MK4 100mcg (with alfaalfa), my Vit D symptoms worsened a lot, fatigue was unbearable.
But after trying natto (40g per day). Just in a week I got huge energy boost. Clean teeth.
Previously I had couple teeth sensitivities, when saliva was there it was even more painful. Now sensitivity is almost gone.
I'm planning to do one more blood test to check calcium levels.
Not sure how much MK7 in 40g natto.
Also looks like it's a bit heavy for liver to handle. Will slow down a bit.
Probably somewhat messy experience, but would be interesting to know how MK4/MK7 impacts PTH and blood calcium levels.

 

[Chocolove]

There is a new vitamin K2(MK-7) and vitamin K1 product just out from a manufacturer that I trust:

<div style="display:inline;"> <img height="1" width="1" style="border-style:none;" alt="" src="//googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/viewthroughconversion/1071665716/?value=0&guid=ON&script=0"/> </div>

X

View Larger