Has vitamin K-2 (mk-4 or mk7) helped you ?

[SherDa]

I've tried taking Carlson MK4 several times. My response to it is too good to be sustainable. It gives me an incredible amount of energy (that feels like good energy, not wired) but it makes me unable to sleep. My neck and shoulder muscles get very tense after a few days on it, and my digestion freezes up causing neurological symptoms mainly at night (tinnitus, jaw tremor, distal extremity numbness and tingling). If I can keep my digestive track moving, I don't get these symptoms. I do think K2 quickly lowers my serum and muscle calcium levels, but I cannot alleviate the intolerance with increased calcium intake alone.

I've had poor protein intake my whole life and when I'm able to stimulate an appetite (for example, when I started taking zinc and thiamine), I have almost insatiable cravings for meat especially the glutamate/umami cravings. I'm going to investigate whether low glutamine/glutamate is part of the issue behind my K2 intolerance. I'll be back

 

[Mikemcd]

[QUOTE="SusanH, post: 751183, And I can feel joint instability in other areas and am terrified I will blow out a knee or hip next if I keep taking it. I take optimal calcium and magnesium and other supplements. Anyone else have this intolerance?[/QUOTE]

I too felt joint "instability" or wobbliness in the knees and hips, when I was K2 (mega) dosing.

 

[Ronn]

I'm new here and only want to share my recent experience taking Vit K (MK-7). I began taking it (Jarrow MK-7 90mcg gelcap) once a day about 2 months ago. I have had gum pockets around my teeth for many years. I had my teeth cleaned after I'd been taking the MK-7 for a month. During my visits the Dental hygienist (who I have seen semi-annually for at least 10 years) always informs me about the state of the pockets and how I should care for them. This time she said nothing so I asked her, thinking she forgot. She said "you don't have any". Blew my mind. I haven't been doing anything different than usual, sometimes I forget to brush my teeth before bed, don't floss, etc. I told her about the Vit K and she called me a week later to say she was going to the health food store and asking me what it was I had gotten. Looking to have more dialog with her to see what happens for her.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have almost insatiable cravings for meat especially the glutamate/umami cravings. I'm going to investigate whether low glutamine/glutamate is part of the issue behind my K2 intolerance. I'll be back

I recommend these 2 readings:

 

[dannybex]

For me: K2 is a miracle drug. It went through my body like a whirlwind. Got rid of some brain fog, then after a week, all hell broke loose. My spine locked up, so I crawled on my hands and knees to my car, then off to the Emergency Room. Took me 20 minutes to get on the examining table. They took x-rays, and said there was nothing they could do for me, as everything looked normal. They thought all I wanted was Opiates, like all the other bums in there. They sent me home with Oxycontin. Fools. My back got better after a week, then I noticed cracking of my spine? I'm 67 and my spine hasn't cracked in 30 years. All my joints started to loosen up. My posture improved dramatically. I pee like I am a teenager. I think it even dissolved the small cataracts in my eyes. (the sun doesn't give me eye fog) Now after 8 months my skin, my elbows, my face, the wrinkles are going away. Jesus. Weston Price, where are you?

@Mikemcd Call me slow, but I don't understand how having your spine lock up, so that you had to crawl to the ER, and then later having your spine crack, is a good thing?

 

[dannybex]

Pain in kidneys, tendons, muscles. Also feeling worse than usual overall.

Calcium - I couldn't tolerate that either until I bumped up K2 and it caused hypocalcemia. Now I HAVE TO take it.

A year or so later...I'm assuming that the K2 also helped w/your oxalate issues -- or at least didn't make them worse?

Also, what form/brand of calcium did you take?

 

[Sidereal]

A year or so later...I'm assuming that the K2 also helped w/your oxalate issues -- or at least didn't make them worse?

Also, what form/brand of calcium did you take?

K2 helped a lot with calcium/oxalate issues, yes.

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vita...ie=UTF8&qid=1487935966&sr=8-4&keywords=calmag

 

[Mikemcd]

@Mikemcd Call me slow, but I don't understand how having your spine lock up, so that you had to crawl to the ER, and then later having your spine crack, is a good thing?

Spine cracking is like knuckles cracking. Better than being frozen up with calcium deposition.

 

[dannybex]

Spine cracking is like knuckles cracking. Better than being frozen up with calcium deposition.

Ah, okay. That makes more sense. I think of 'cracking' as 'popping'. My ankles have been 'popping' ever since I've been ill, and has gone away during 2 brief remissions. It does feel better instead of not being able to 'pop' them...

 

[pamojja]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned (to tired to read the whole thread now), but I use Koncentrated K which contains 25mg K2-mk4, 0.5mg K2-mk7, 5mg K1 and 2mg Astaxthin per capsule. Much interesting research to read collected there.

 

[realturbo]

Am thinking of ordering this - provides 5,000 IU D3 (Cholecalciferol from Lanolin) and 90 mcg K2 (Menaquinone 7, MK-7 from Geraniol [Pine]).

Any thoughts on wether this would be a good one to take gladly appreciated...

 

[Mikemcd]

Ah, okay. That makes more sense. I think of 'cracking' as 'popping'. My ankles have been 'popping' ever since I've been ill, and has gone away during 2 brief remissions. It does feel better instead of not being able to 'pop' them...

How goes the health issues? Anything new to relate?

 

[prioris]

I started taking 15mg K2 MK4 / 60mcg K2 MK7 about 3 months ago. First month took it 3Xdays. After that 2Xday

I always take mine in morning with butter or coconut oil which is essentially MCT oil along with cod liver capsule / 2000 IU D3./ Omega oil capsules / etc. In evening I take it with fatty meal.

I am 61 male. My goal is to eliminate calcium deposits in my body. I think I have bursitis too which may be calcium caused. These can be anything from paste like calcium to bone spurs if they exist. I don't expect any quick results. This will be done for a year or more. I am taking Relentless brand. Long road ahead of me.

I am careful about taking too much D3 because that could make me absorb too much calcium
I don't take calcium but want the K2 to utilize the calcium deposits inside my body.

Someone mentioned that their dental pockets disappeared. That's not the vitamin K2. That is collagen. Collagen is what mainly heals gums. I regenerated my deteriorating gums with Biocell HA. The dental exam found none.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I don't take calcium but want the K2 to utilize the calcium deposits inside my body.

Many people report that K2 supplementation creates a demand for supplemented calcium, even if in low dose, so keep an eye on that.

 

[keenly]

Many people report that K2 supplementation creates a demand for supplemented calcium, even if in low dose, so keep an eye on that.

Really? Should be opposite. K2 should help transport Calcium to where it needs to be. They should be no extra demand. CFS patients have high intracellular calcium, it is just stuck there. I think there is a major gut connection to this. I predict nearly all CFS patients who are suffering immensely are deficient in vitamin K, stemming from poor levels of beneficial bacteria in the gut. This deficiency will effect calcium transportation.

 

[prioris]

If I take too much D3 (4000+ IU), I will feel the calcium methylation. I think the high dose MK4 studies in Japan for osteoporosis didn't use any calcium. Just K2 MK4.

Lithium orotate is suppose to protect brain from too much calcium. Yasko has found that MTHFR people are deficient in this mineral.

The parathyroid will increase calcium blood serum if it gets too low. It will use whatever source is available. Hopefully we hope that it uses the calcium deposits. The thyroid will inject Calcitonin to oppose the parathyroid if calcium blood serum gets too high by putting it back on the bone. Bio-available silica is important in preventing brittle bones.

To avoid too much calcium, I take 1 or 2 tablets of butyric acid in three forms (salt, potassium, butyraid which uses calcium) to avoid ingestion of too much calcium.


One of these days I will get my vitamin D D25 levels checked. My D1.25 is 46 which is for more kidney related stuff. I am getting parathyroid checked because that is the one gland I would be most concerned with. I take Borax once a week to feed it nutrients. I am taking a round of parathyroid glandular just as an experiment.

About 4 years ago I believe is when I got heavily into the K2 stuff. I initially got on MK7 band wagon but over time what bothered me most was that the broad spectrum of K supplements pushed the MK7 and neglected the MK4. I searched for a number of years for studies supporting the use of MK7 but could find any supporting decalcification.

The knock on MK4 was that they could not find sufficient levels in blood serum after 6 or 7 hours and that became rationale for using MK7. There are many things where blood serum levels don't give the true picture. It's not about serum levels but whether the body is actually using MK4. I even searched for high dose MK4 but the highest I found was 5mg. I graduated to the Life Extension brand that had 3mg. Last year I found the 15mg high dose on Amazon. I use the Relentless brand.

I remember reading an anecdote of a 90 year old guy comment. He seemingly took care of his health. He used MK7 for many years. Despite this, he ended up needing surgery for calcification of heart valves. He wondered why MK7 didn't work. I would say to him that there are no studies supporting decalcification from MK7 except maybe vaguely. It may help put calcium on bones but it doesn't target calcium with MGP like MK4.

The only positive thing I have seen in heart surgery are those dissolving stents because maybe it can buy people some time. Leaving artificial stuff in the body creates additional problems.

January of last year, I did take Jarrow Ultra Bone Up for 3 months heavily since I thought I could have some osteoporosis. Since then I have gotten smarter. That was the ONLY complete bone supplement out there AT THE TIME. It used the right calcium - MCHA calcium. It used all the mineral co-factors. It had MK7 but not MK4 although I could see how they could rationalize that. Since then, other brands have followed suit and contain many of the things with Jarrow. The silica is the most critical mineral since it lays collagen matrix on bones to make them resilient.

My objective is to try to get to the bottom of any calcium metabolism dysfunction and calcification. It's been a learning curve. Searching the internet is a pain since many things posted in previous years don't show up until many years after.

I am trying to wrap my (maybe calcified) brain around this calcification / calcium metabolism dysfunction and address any loose ends I didn't think about. Being over 60, I don't want to end up having surgery.Calcification is number one enemy of elderly. I don't want to look back and say - oh crap, i should have done this or that.

I also do take Cordiart and Pomegranate once a day in morning to address endothelian dysfunction - the number one cause of plaque and calcification in arteries of why people die of heart attacks.

About 12 years ago, I had severe peripheral artery disease and could hardly walk. I used a combination of nattokinase and serrapeptase 3Xday to reverse the symptoms. It just took 1 month to resolve it. It is essentially a clot buster so useful for plaque removal. Most important time to take it is at night. It doesn't address calcification but that is what I hope K2 MK4 will do.

 

[dannybex]

How goes the health issues? Anything new to relate?

Nope. Actually have a 'decent' sinus and chest cold, with a semi-decent fever. Not sure if that will mean anything, as it's happened maybe a couple times in 17 years, but still nice, despite the coughing, aches and pains, to think my body's immune system is at least trying to act like a normal person's.

 

[SherDa]

Really? Should be opposite. K2 should help transport Calcium to where it needs to be. They should be no extra demand. CFS patients have high intracellular calcium, it is just stuck there. I think there is a major gut connection to this. I predict nearly all CFS patients who are suffering immensely are deficient in vitamin K, stemming from poor levels of beneficial bacteria in the gut. This deficiency will effect calcium transportation.

I believe the K2 specifically directs calcium to bone. I haven't seen any studies or articles suggesting it helps maintain sufficient muscle concentrations of calcium. When I take K2, I develop really painful muscle symptoms that are only relieved by calcium, so I am guessing that K2 increases the uptake of serum calcium to bone and then the body must use muscular calcium to replace the serum calcium. It's like K2 creates a powerful vacuum of calcium! It's a shame because I get so much energy from K2, but the ensuing muscular pain is unbearable so I'm proceeding at snail's pace with K2.

I'm definitely concerned about my bone health given that all it takes is a little vitamin K2 to strongly stimulate low calcium symptoms. I'll have to read more about the hormonal stimuli for bone metabolism. I do lift weights when I can, and I wonder if that is stimulating enough growth hormone to increase bone remodeling?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I wonder if that is stimulating enough growth hormone to increase bone remodeling?

Estrogen is key

 

[prioris]

This is why I don't feel warm and comfy with almost all the K2 info on the internet.

This is the only link I have found that truly talks about K2 way more in depth and does it in layman terms that virtually all the other K2 links GLOSS OVER.or say nothing

http://omegavia.com/how-to-choose-the-right-vitamin-k2-supplement/

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You need both MK-4 and MK-7 (particularly MK-4)
These are very different molecules with different structures and different functions.

• MK-4 is the only K2 in the brain, where it seems to concentrate. MK-7 seems to be absent in the brain. MK-4 activates proteins involved in maintaining structure of brain cell membranes. These proteins are called Vitamin K Dependent Proteins (VKDP). Scientists have identified 15 VKDP proteins so far. MK-4 also manages inflammation and oxidative stress in the brain.
• The form of Vitamin K that exists at the highest concentrations in tissues of animals and humans is menaquinone-4 (MK-4.) MK-4 accounts for about 40% and the remainder comprise mainly MK-9, MK-8, and MK-7, in that order. So you could say MK-7 is the fourth most important Vitamin K2.
• Pregnant women need MK-4 because MK-7 does not cross the placenta. MK-4 does. Pregnant women given supplements of MK-7 did not pass on MK-7 to the fetus. This means that pregnant women and developing fetus must have MK-4. MK-7 is also noticeably absent in the cord blood and fetus. We don’t know why this is the case.
• MK-4 and MK-7 are transported in the body by different lipoproteins. MK-4 is transported by HDL and LDL whereas MK-7 is transported around the body by VLDL.
• Human breast milk contains MK-4. It does not contain MK-7.
• Some cellular functions must have MK-4. And MK-7 does things MK-4 cannot.
• Consuming large quantities of MK-7 was extremely rare until the Japanese started fermenting soybeans (Natto) around 1000 AD. Until then, virtually all K2 came in the form of MK-4 with a smattering of other MK forms. Until recently, most healthy traditional cultures got their K2 in the MK-4 form.
• High dose MK-4 is used in Japan as a prescription drug for osteoporosis. Most of the studies showing lowered fracture risk used MK-4, not MK-7.

Based on all of the above, you could make a compelling argument that MK-4 is much more important than MK-7.

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