has anyone tried Dr Nemechek Vagus Nerve?

[anne_likes_red]

@sb4 will answer yr motility question here
I actually noticed a positive effect prior to starting tvns.
I started doing some respiratory gated manual vagal dermatome stimulation ie - pushing with my thumb on the left inner tragus on the outbreath only and I had immediate improvement in being able to lengthen the outbreath without sympathetic activation and also had some improvement in digestion and motility straight away...literally the first or second day.
Sorry you haven't had a positive response there yet. I'm not doing the manual vagal stim now I'm using t-vns but one thing is I've kept the careful breathing going while using the stim....so whether a slight extension on the outbreath is contributing somehow also...I don't know. Just a thought!

 

[Fogbuster]

Hey @sb4 & @anne_likes_red , I watched one of Dr Nemecheks short videos on youtube "Reversal of Autonomic Dysfunction" and was very impressed with the whole presentation. How are you guys getting on right now? Is it possible to get a vagus nerve stimulating device without having to see Dr Nemechek?

 

[junkcrap50]

Hey @sb4 & @anne_likes_red , I watched one of Dr Nemecheks short videos on youtube "Reversal of Autonomic Dysfunction" and was very impressed with the whole presentation. How are you guys getting on right now? Is it possible to get a vagus nerve stimulating device without having to see Dr Nemechek?

Yes. All he uses is a TENs device, available online. But I don't know which one or what settings he uses.

 

[sb4]

@Fogbuster I discontinued it after around 2 months, I was noticing any results, I had found something effective that I wanted to try out (MCT + Carbs), and it was hurting my ear due to my makeshift earpiece not being so good.

Yeah it is pretty cheap and easy to give it a try and you don't need to see Nemecheck. His protocol is written down somewhere and in this thread is the device he uses.

 

[Fogbuster]

@Fogbuster I discontinued it after around 2 months, I was noticing any results, I had found something effective that I wanted to try out (MCT + Carbs), and it was hurting my ear due to my makeshift earpiece not being so good.

Yeah it is pretty cheap and easy to give it a try and you don't need to see Nemecheck. His protocol is written down somewhere and in this thread is the device he uses.

That's a shame you didn't get any benefit from it. Will you trial it again or was it a pretty conclusive zero effect on your symptoms? I'm from the UK too and would be willing to buy it off you if you have no desire to use it anymore.

 

[sb4]

I am fairy sure it wasn't doing anything or at least the effect was minimal. As always I was trying other things so that muddies the experiment.

As for selling it. It only cost me £25 so if I were to sell it second hand I would say around £12 but the problem is that it is a big hassel for me to arrange for it to get sent such that it would not be worth the effort for me.

Looking on ebay it I found this which is similar to what I bought maybe even the same seller https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric...=item41c0a6d187:g:00kAAOSwol5Y0fnu:rk:12:pf:0

However I forgot about the delivery so it is £35.

 

[anne_likes_red]

Hello, yes we are still using it. 1 x per day @ 4 hz modulated. So this provides stimulation between 2 and 4 hz. I use the 250 pulse width setting.
Currently also playing around with using it in a respiratory gated way....so only applying stim on the out breath. There's something about breathing/heart rate variability all tied in with this!
I also experimented with slightly higher frequencies (15 - 30 hz) but I find them a bit too stimulating.
Hope that helps....sorry for delay in replying we've been away camping a lot. (And yes TENS unit went with us!)
Best,
Anne.

 

[bjl218]

Does it matter that the current is not passing directly through the tragus or concha? The instructions on HealthRising appear to be for modifying a single ear clip so that the current passes through one side of the clip to the other. In other words, you're hooking up the positive and negative (red and black) leads to a single clip. This seems to be most like the clip that Nemechek uses. @anne_likes_red 's instructions use 2 ear clips so the current is passing between the tragus or concha and whatever other spot (e.g., ear lobe) you've attached the 2nd clip to.

 

[anne_likes_red]

We made my ear clip in line with those used in a range of recent tvns studies where certain brain regions were stimulated via the NTS. I think some other practitioners using vagus nerve stimulation use two sites like that.
The Health Rising instructions make something many people seem to find quite uncomfortable if used more than a few minutes, but yes it does apply the current more like Nemechek's clip does.

 

[bjl218]

Just did my first treatment. I'm using a TENS 7000 + black ear clips: one attached to the ear lobe and one attached to the tragus. I may try to construct a homebrew ear clip to try on the concha at some point. No positive or negative results to report as yet although my understanding is that it may take a few treatments to see any results.

This session I did 30 minutes with settings at 25Hz/250 pulse width. Power was set to between 1 and 2 which I gradually adjusted up to about 2 as I felt the conductance lessening a bit probably due to the conductive spray drying out.

 

[JasonUT]

I am going to jump on the bandwagon and become a lab rat for tNVS. I have been diagnosed with POTS.

I am considering the following hardware:

1. TENS 7000
2. Ear Clips on Amazon - Link
3. Ear Clips on TENS Pro - Link

 

[junkcrap50]

Just some new info and links. Dr. Nemechek has created his own tVNS device that connects to / is powered by your phone, called "wellVns":
http://www.nemechektechnologies.com/
https://www.wellvns.com/

Also has a link to an app that tracks HRV (but there are lots of HRV apps out there):
https://www.autonomicadvantage.com

 

[junkcrap50]

Nemchek's ear clip configuration with both electrodes on it:

 

[junkcrap50]

Detailed info on his protocol, including what TMS settings to use (fq, wave, etc):
https://www.nemechekconsultativemedicine.com/wp-content/uploads/NAM-1705-ConferencePosters-C-LR.pdf

 

[Hip]

I suspect that the vagus nerve stimulation approach used by the GammaCore device might be more effective that these ear devices. The GammaCore is an FDA approved device, and there are lots of papers about it on PubMed.

The vagus nerve runs down either side of the neck, and the GammaCore targets this nerve:

GammaCore Device for Vagus Nerve Stimulation

Vagus Nerve in Neck

The above shows a traditional implantable vagus nerve stimulator; the GammaCore is a non-invasive alternative to such implantable devices.


For anyone handy with electronics, it should be easy enough to make your own GammaCore. It seems to use a 5000 Hz sine wave at around 30 volts, but which is fired in just short 5 pulses. So you hold it to your neck, and those 5 pulses get fired into your vagus nerve. You then repeat this several times per day.

Gammacore Electrical Characteristics:

Maximum Output: 30V (peak), 60mA (peak)
Electrical signal consisting of five 5,000-Hz pulses, repeating at a rate of 25 Hz. The waveform of the gammaCore pulse is approximately a sine wave.

And here:

gammaCore uses an alternating current electrical signal consisting of five 5000-Hz pulses repeating at a rate of 25 Hz. The waveform of the gammaCore pulse is approximately a sine wave, which allows the passage of currents more than 15 times larger than those used in the implantable device, while causing only minimal nociceptive pain. There is only a mild skin sensation and muscle contraction due to the proximity to the sternocleidomastoidmuscle (SCM).

The length of the pulses does not seem to be specified, but the time between each pulse is 1/25 = 0.04 seconds.

 

[junkcrap50]

I suspect that the vagus nerve stimulation approach used by the GammaCore device might be more effective that these ear devices. The GammaCore is an FDA approved device, and there are lots of papers about it on PubMed.

I'd think so too, but it's horribly expensive. However, the in ear tVNS is very cheap (<$25) and you can do stuff while wearing it. Also, it's based on other vagal nerve stimulation medical devices that are officially approved.

For anyone handy with electronics, it should be easy enough to make your own GammaCore. It seems to use a 5000 Hz sine wave at around 30 volts, but which is fired in just short 5 pulses. So you hold it to your neck, and those 5 pulses get fired into your vagus nerve. You then repeat this several times per day.

Maybe it's just a handheld TENS device? (Tip off is mild skin senation & muscle contraction) If you can set those settings to your TENS and put two patches on your neck, it'll probably be very similar.

 

[sb4]

For anyone handy with electronics, it should be easy enough to make your own GammaCore. It seems to use a 5000 Hz sine wave at around 30 volts, but which is fired in just short 5 pulses. So you hold it to your neck, and those 5 pulses get fired into your vagus nerve. You then repeat this several times per day.

Thats very interesting and tempting however I noticed nothing from the ear stuff.

How difficult do you think this would be for someone who can barely get a few leds connected to a battery to work?

I already have a 12V car battery, if I purchased an 18V battery and connected them in series that I would need some kind of small circuit that regulates Hz and pulse, what would these components be?

Do you intend to make one of these yourself?

 

[Hip]

How difficult do you think this would be for someone who can barely get a few leds connected to a battery to work?

The way I would do it is to create the appropriate pulsed 5000 Hz audio signal on a computer, then run the 3.5 mm socket audio output from the computer to a HiFi amplifier, which will increase the voltage to around 20 or 30 volts (depending on how high you turn the amp volume knob). So by running two wires from the black and red speaker terminals on the amplifier to two small electrodes placed a few inches apart on your neck, you will have you own GammaCore.

However, it important to note that the GammaCore does not produce a continuous signal. It sends 5 very short pulses of 5000 Hz, with each pulse I would guess being around a few milliseconds in length, and the pulses are sent once every 40 milliseconds. Once all 5 pulses are sent, which will take just one-fifth of a second in total, that's the end of the treatment.

When people use the GammaCore, I believe they just hold it to their neck, press the button, and within an instant the treatment is applied, with these 5 pulses hitting the vagus.

You don't want to be sending a continuous signal of 5000 Hz into your vagus nerve in your neck.

So the hardest thing would be to create an audio music file that contains just 5 short pulses of a 5000 Hz tone. However, that can be done with audio editing software that allows editing of the actual sound waveform, which I have on my Mac (there are quite a few free audio editors — eg OceanAudio). Once you have created this audio file, which will only be a fifth of a second long, you can just play it using any music software like iTunes say.

 

[sb4]

@Hip Thanks. Now another question, I am confused by looking at PC amplifiers and trying to workout the maximum Voltage they can output. Lets take the specs on this for example:

• Model Number: XU09
• Type: Headphone Amp
• Material: Metal
• Input/Output Port: 3.5mm Headphone Jack
• Charge Port: Micro USB port.
• Output Power: 40Mw in impedance 16Ω
• Adapted Headphone Impedance: 16-150Ω
• THD+N: 0.0003 %
• S/N: >100dB
• Lithium Battery Capacity: 2000mAh
• Playback Time: approx. 8 hours
• Internal Voltage: 8.3V/1A
• Charging Time: approx. 2hours
• Color: Black
• Item Size: 9.8 x 6.2 x 1.8cm
• Item Weight: 120g

I assume the amp works by increasing volume of computer speakers through providing extra power via battery.

It says output power 40Mw which I assume is 40mW.

Amps = Watts / Volts
I = V/R.
W/V = V/R
W= (V/R) * V
W = V^2 / R
V^2 = W / R = 0.04 W / 16Ω (???) = 0.0025‬
V = sqrRt(0.0025‬) = 400 ???

Something has to have gone wrong in these calculations.

 

[Hip]

@sb4, I don't think you can use the equation I = V/R for alternating currents through inductive loads (coils of wire) like speakers or headphones, because the resistance of an inductor also depends on the frequency. But I am too brain fogged to remember the details.

I don't think a headphone amp is going to have a voltage as high as an amp designed to drive loudspeakers. I think headphone socket voltages are around 1 or 2 volts.