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From hypo- to hyperthyroid on the protocol? (agitation, nervousness, rapid heart beat etc.)

Messages
19
Hi everybody!

I´m on my doctor´s methylation protocol (which is close to the one of RichvK).

I had severe CFS& Mitochondriopathia and was bed-ridden for a longer time. Now I am awake all day and can concentrate on things to a certain extend, which I´m really happy about. Unfortunately in the past 2-3 months additional severe symptoms developed and I feel like my doc doesn´t really know how to handle them.

I think up to the beginning of this year I was hypothyroid since my Selenium and Iodine levels were below the normal range. After I started supplementing Selenium and Iodine, my doctor told me in February this year I should also take 5-MTHF (400mcg daily).
During the first month of taking the above everything steadily improved, but since the beginning of March I got pain in my thyroid, strong headaches, dizzyness, muscle cramps, rapid heart beat/ palpitations and kind of spasms in my hands and feet, diarrhea and I often felt like fainting. During the first weeks of that circumstance I was awake and extremely nervous all day. But by now I am physically just weak and tired and my muscles are totally out of power although I´m still very nervous.

Last week I stopped taking 5-MTHF, Methylcobalamin (4.5mg), SAMe (100mg), Selenium and Iodine and at least I don´t feel like fainting anymore. But my muscle and brain issues are still consisting and the pain in my thyroid is still the same. Althrough I am physically totally weak I mentally feel nervous and feel like I should go out and run for some hours...

Has anyone of you made the same experiences or has an idea what I could do?! Is it possible without taking thyroid hormones to turn hyperthyroid on the methylation protocol?!

I already got my thyroid checked but I have to wait a long time for the results since my doc´s on holiday now :( I really hope maybe somebody of you guys has a good tip for me...

Yours

Nana
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Hi Nana. I can tell you that I've been able to decrease my thyroid rx twice as my methylation protocol continues. I don't know if that equates to going from normal to hyperthyroid. Your other symptoms sound like they could be combination of low potassium and low magnesium, which can result from methylation, especially raising folate levels. Hope someone can contribute something more than this. chgeers, ahmo
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Hi Nana,

According to late Rich Van Konynenburg a methylation protocol can improve thyroid function.
http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/

With selenium and iodine you can also increase the thyroid function. How much did you take? Your methyl supps seem to be what knowledgeable doctors prescribe. Sounds that your body just got too much at the same time that increased the thyroid funtion.

This site contains a lot of good information about thyroid problems www.stopthethyroidmadness.com.

Check your morning body temperature. If more than 36.8- 37 Celsius that might also be a sign of being hyperthyroid.

An easy way, if not living in a hot climate, to put more demand on the thyroid and increase the need for thyroid hormone is to stay as cool as possible. In Northern countrie´s we usually have to increase the dose of thyroid hormone during winter season. So in the opposite, this could work to lower the thyroid hormone in your body. Maybe you will get a big dip when all supps go down enough, but it seems like you are doing the right things. Just tricky to balance everything. Best of luck! Helen
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Low potassium for sure, this is a huge issue when using methylation. If you were deficient in magnesium to begin with then your body would also naturally hold onto less. Methylation is very dependent on potassium for cellular production. Most here use supplemental potassium on top of high potassium diets. Powder form is the best, you can get it from Now brandname. at least 3000mg a day seems to do the trick for most, also be sure to supplement P5P but no higher then 20mg and a basic b complex with methyl folate instead of folic acid. Thorne brand name sells good ones.

Avoid any supplements containing folic acids, and folic acid fortified foods.

For the mitochondria issues I would HIGHLY suggest NT factor by Nutricology, it has no other fillers or vitamins so very simple and to the point, very good for healing the mitochondria!

http://www.iherb.com/Nutricology-NT...isc=0&lc=en-US&w=nt factor&rc=11&sr=null&ic=8
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
Nana,

There may be more than just the effects of methylation going on, so I would encourage you to look closely at the symptoms of hyperthyroid before concluding that that is what's happening to you. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyperthyroidism/basics/symptoms/con-20020986.

Can hyperthyroid happen on a methylation protocol? Well, yes, it can happen ON a methylation protocol without happening BECAUSE of the methylation protocol. It can happen because, for example, someone (and I'm not suggesting this is you) got thyroid cancer. The methylation protocol would be coincident in timing but not causal.

It could also be that now the minerals you were deficient in have been restored, that thyroid function has been restored, and something else is going on. Maybe @Martial is right that you're low in potassium, but that is usually associated with constipation, not diarrhea. And I don't associate low potassium with the neurological symptoms you describe. Your lab results are going to be key.

My tip: I would call your doctor's office even though he's on vacation and asking whether they can send a copy of the lab results to you. Or if another doctor (nurse practitioner? medical assistant?) in his practice can scan them for anything out of the ordinary (flagged by the lab) and talk with you on the phone, maybe refer you to an endocrinologist. If that doesn't work, tell them you don't blame him for taking vacation, he works hard and deserves it, but that you're worried that as bad as you're feeling, you don't want to delay if something serious showed up on the lab results. Or tell them that you want to make an appointment with another doctor (endocrinologist or an urgent care) and tell them you want to bring a copy of the results with you. If you sound like you urgently want to address your symptoms, that you are worried and can't tolerate them, they may accommodate you. Just suggestions.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Nana,
...My tip: I would call your doctor's office even though he's on vacation and asking whether they can send a copy of the lab results to you. Or if another doctor (nurse practitioner? medical assistant?) in his practice can scan them for anything out of the ordinary (flagged by the lab) and talk with you on the phone, maybe refer you to an endocrinologist. If that doesn't work, tell them you don't blame him for taking vacation, he works hard and deserves it, but that you're worried that as bad as you're feeling, you don't want to delay if something serious showed up on the lab results. Or tell them that you want to make an appointment with another doctor (endocrinologist or an urgent care) and tell them you want to bring a copy of the results with you. If you sound like you urgently want to address your symptoms, that you are worried and can't tolerate them, they may accommodate you. Just suggestions.

I agree with you Critterina when I read your suggestions. @Nana86, you shouldn´t have to struggle with this on your own until your doctor is back. I do hope you will get help soon.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,840
Hi Nana86, I would like to give another option for you to consider.

I have been seeing many people come up with histamine symptoms as a result of taking methylfolate. I do not know the exact reason for this, but it does happen. Also, your recent symptoms do match common high histamine symptoms.

Sometimes it is called overmethylation, and in that case B3 is recommended.

If it is a rise in histamines, reducing the amount of histamines in the diet and small amounts of B3 on a daily basis are helpful.

Take care
 
Messages
19
Thanks a lot everybody for your answers! :)

@Violeta, how much of B3 would be recommended to slow down methylation? Unfortunately I already have very (!) high levels of histamine since my body is overproducing it plus I got bacteria in my gut that are also producing a high amount of histamine. I am already on a histamine free diet (for years already...). Do you (or anybody else) know what to do if histamine levels are higher than usual due to methylation ? And how long time does this circumstance last normally?

Nana
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,840
@Nana86, I read that you should start with 50mg of B3 and see if you get a flush. If you do, stay at that amount, but I think you can take it more than once a day. I honestly don't know how long it takes to straighten out high histamine levels due to methylation issues.

I also just read that high histamines can be caused by hormones(but I don't know how, yet), leaky gut, and SIBO.
What are your histamine symptoms? I am just realizing that mine are pretty much systemic. I don't know why, but for a few weeks now my itching at times is off the charts.

I just today saw someone make a comment that made me think of fatty liver being involved with histamine levels, and I am going to start being more aggressive in that area. I think improving bile flow might be helpful.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
Although my background is a little different, I amm experiencing similar symptoms. I found an old topic with an explanation by the late Rich von K regarding methylation and histamines:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/do-b12-and-folate-increase-histamine.10748/

Hi, Moon.

The concept of "histadelia" comes from the work of the late Carl Pfieffer, which is now carried on by William Walsh. High histamine occurs in people who are getting folic acid as their main source of folate, but are not able to convert it readily to the active, chemically reduced forms of folate. I think this is due to having inherited a slow version of the DHFR (dihydrofolate reductase) enzyme, which normally carries out this reaction. It has been found that the activity of this reaction varies a great deal among different people (by a factor of 5, or 500%!)

Folate normally impacts the degradation of histamine levels in two ways. One is that the normal breakdown of histidine, from which histamine is made, requires tetrahydrofolate, a reduced form of folate. Deficiency in this is what accounts for elevated Figlu (formiminoglutamate) on urine organic acids tests, such as the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic Analysis Profile.
The other way folate impacts histamine levels is that the intracellular breakdown of histamine is carried out by a methyltransferase reaction, and this depends on having adequate methylation capacity, which in turn depends on having enough methylfolate, another reduced form of folate.

For a person with this DHFR problem, taking folic acid will just add more inactive folate, and its absorption will compete with absorption of the active forms of folate, such as are found in natural (not folic acid fortified) foods. Nowadays it is possible to obtain methylfolate as a supplement (unlike at the time Pfieffer did his work) as L5-methyltetrahydrofolate (Metafolin, FolaPro, MethylMate B, Deplin (by prescription)), or the racemic 5-MTHF supplements.

So the problem in histadelia is not caused by too much B12 or folate, but not enough of the proper forms. Folic acid should be avoided particularly by people who have elevated histamine. It is not the best form for other people, either, but can be used by most to make the active forms

There is an over-the-counter synthetic form of the normal extracellular enzyme that breaks down histamine (diamine oxidase, an enzyme that requires copper and B6). This form is called Daosin, and is produced by Sciotec in Austria. DAOSiN is also available under the brand name DIASIN in Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Histame in the USA and Canada.
It can help in lowering histamine until the folate status and the methylation cycle function can be improved.

Best regards

Rich

I am still confused if I should try niacin (is nicotinamide also ok?) or if I should restart methylation.

izzy

Edit to add that @whodathunkit reported cold/flu symptoms here
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...y-cold-after-starting-methylation-supps.28312

and similar symptoms are in the 4th and 9th roadblocks from @caledonia 's document
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ks-to-successful-methylation-treatment.29273/
 
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Messages
6
I always thought that taking loads of potassium could be dangerous. Isn't that why it is generally sold in 99 mg tablets? Am I missing something?
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@fngrpntr K+ tabs are only 99mg because those tabs can sit in your stomach (or gut?) and create discomfort. But powdered forms, as K+ Gluconate, are dissolved in solution and don't pose the same problems. I take about 3 gm K+ typically. I used to take somewhat less than this regularly, orally, without any issues. I now take my K+ in footbaths, along w/ many of my other supps, so I don't burden my gut. cheers, ahmo