My bumpy road towards increasing acetylcholine, finally with success
Thanks
@South,
@Richard7 and
@Gondwanaland for all your interest in my experiences. That motivated me a lot to find some time in between of doctor's appointments to write it all down. Sorry for the long delay: Badly enough, I suffered a new setback: choline inhibited my motility. What? It is supposed to improve that. So I did not feel it would be responsible to announce my experiences when all I have to offer is risk and suffering. It should at least work for a single person, that is, me. Now, read below: I am glad to say this hurdle is taken and I am now happy with my new self-treatment.
References will follow:
To most things below I have meanwhile collected some research and will post it here as soon as I have a little time. My newest happy research find: increasing acetylcholine may increase alpha-msh, which is the gut's natural defense against pathogenic biofilms. So instead of going to Kenny De Meirleir and swallowing his well-intended antibiotics for many months, one has this natural antibiotic which accomplishes what the pills are not so good at: demolish biofilms. This however may also explain the bad chills I had at high doses. So, increasing natural alpa-msh may be no better at avoiding die-offs. But much better in so far as that antibiotics ruin also the healthy parts of the gut flora and one cannot take them forever. I red posts by people geting out of CFS on Meirleir's treatment and then gliding into CFS again after stopping antibiotics for a while. I appreciate De Meirleir for what he brought in such as popularizing the connection between CFS and gut bacteria. Highly appreciated! But do you want to keep De Meirleir treating you forever...?
- ok, this was just an appetizer. I need to do more work on this. Concrete research with references will follow.
1. I measured my choline intake from food using cronometer.com. Choline data is sometimes missing, so the nutritional tables posted in this thread (thanks to
@Richard7 !) do help to doubly verify. I found my intake to be badly low. -> indication to increase choline. This is a widespread issue:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782876/
"A recent analysis of data from NHANES 2003–2004 revealed that for older children, men, women and pregnant women, mean choline intakes are far below the AI.
Ten percent or fewer had usual choline intakes at or above the AI"
2. I take AGP choline (= alpha GPC = Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline). I do not know if any other choline would do better or worse. This is the form Dr Diana Driscoll uses in Parasym Plus and it is said to resorb well.
3. I take it transdermally. Oral intake from food or pills can grow bad bacteria
I open the capsule and sprinkle the powder on skin just anywhere, drip a tiny amount of water and rub it in until it becomes a layer that feels greasy. Choline is eaten by bad gut bacteria. One won't notice the bad effects immediately but would damage oneself. I have experience with carnitine, which has this same effect. I damaged myself for a year or so before I understood where my small but slowly accumulating deteriorations came from...
And before taking AGP choline transdermally, I tried eating duck fat and brain, both high in choline. I ran into digestive issues compatible with feeding bad bugs. This was my first try and my first setback on this acetylcholine path... I was not well and hope my experiences save you suffering.
As a precautionary measure to avoid changes in skin microbiome, I cycle the skin area (left thigh, right thigh, left calf, ...).
4. I apply it some 0-30 min before protein-rich meals only:
Acetylcholine and serotonine antagonise each other. When I took it before salad meals (no tryptophane to produce serotonine) It didn't improve but inhibited upper gut motility (that "wonderful" stone-in-the-stomach feeling). Good motility needs serotonine and acetylcholine.
Regarding the 0-30 min before meals, I did not experiment with other times. At the beginning when I started choline transdermally, I clearly noticed the effect coming. It came fast. So I know that it resorbs fast. I want the choline to arrive with the tryptophan from food. It is possible that smearing it right after the meal would be even better...?
All this attention to tryptophan - choline balance may be a particular issue in me: My 5hiaa was almost nonexistent already before taking choline. Maybe this is why I need to be so careful, maybe other people do not need to care about this.
5. It was good to start ridiculously low:
I started at 75 mg/day (no effect), then was unresponsible to increase to 600 mg/day (wonderful, but bad side effects, see below. Lost much time as I had to stop completely), then found my current optimum dosage at 1x150 mg/day. Other people take 600 or 1200mg doses:
https://examine.com/supplements/alpha-gpc/
Recommended daily choline intakes: 550 for men, 425 for women:
https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/choline
6. Having found a well tolerated dosage, I plan to increase it only very slowly:
I found the body needs quite a while to adjust. My current dosage of 1x150mg/day I keep since 2 weeks and will increase only if everything feels fully settled. Concretely, I have sometimes small feelings as if a flu would start. I will wait until these do not come any more and increase only then.
7. No other experiment / changes at the same time:
Choline effects so many systems that one would never know what causes what. Just think of all the effects below...
8. Look out for the following effects:
- Now, on my current optimum dosage (1x150mg/day), I have the following. All these effects are mild, nothing big: more relaxed, better digestion, better gastric emptying, heart pumping more forcefully in a pleasant way, improved blood flow (I have poor intestinal blood flow, I can tell from symptoms that it improved), my too low nightly blood pressure improved as measured by 24h BP, more energy, less chills and less feeling cold.
negative: sometimes a bit of a body feeling as if a flu would be approaching (no chills, no throat issues). Seems to be mostly gone meanwhile.
- In me, when I overdid (600mg/day): surprising, strong and very pleasant deep relaxed peace inside, but then really bad die-offs (exactly the same as when I take anything that kills intestinal bugs in me. Mostly chills such that I need three pullovers in hot summer!)
9. i do not take huperzine A
I had my cholinesterase measured. It was in the lower normal range, see a few posts above for the numbers. Adding to this, I achieved already a good effect with increasing choline. So I do not want to take any huperzine A. Taking choline is a dietary thing. Taking a cholinesterase inhibitor is a poison. Poison can be medicine and yes, people feel better. But there are reports of people who suffered bad damage fom huperzine A:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/acetylcholine-caused-crash.43104/
All the positive reviews on amazon.com for Parasym Plus are from a short-time intake! Hippocrates was a wise guy to say: First, cause no harm.
My guess is that cholinesterase inhibitors are for people with increased cholinesterase, or for cases where increasing choline is exhausted. Why not exhaust first the low-risk treatment before going to the risky one?
