Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

[globalpilot]

I've had a closer look at the herbs you mentioned, especially emblica.

The first study did show a dose of the effective compound - 12mg/kg which is 600mg for myself.

However , that compount is from the root and the triphala is made from the flowers of the plant. So I don't think it wll be antiviral.
The 2nd study also looked at compounds from the root.

Too bad, I thought I had found a cheap antiviral for coxsackie but it appears the root is what is needed.

Nice link, globalpilot.

Two herbs recommended in the leaky gut protocol, namely: Haritaki (Terminalia chebula) and Amla/Indian gooseberry (Emblica officinalis; synonym: Phyllanthus emblica) both have antiviral action against coxsackievirus B, so this may be one of the reasons these herbs work for treating leaky gut. And these herbs may be doubly useful for people with enterovirus-associated CFS.

Refs: PMID19699238; PMID19374435; Terminalia chebula can protect Vero cells from CVB3 and CVB5[/QUOTE]

 

[globalpilot]

It looks like you can buy the root after all ... in bulk.

http://au.alibaba.com/product/459815416-Phyllanthus-emblica-root-Extract.html

I've had a closer look at the herbs you mentioned, especially emblica.

The first study did show a dose of the effective compound - 12mg/kg which is 600mg for myself.

However , that compount is from the root and the triphala is made from the flowers of the plant. So I don't think it wll be antiviral.
The 2nd study also looked at compounds from the root.

Too bad, I thought I had found a cheap antiviral for coxsackie but it appears the root is what is needed.

Nice link, globalpilot.

Two herbs recommended in the leaky gut protocol, namely: Haritaki (Terminalia chebula) and Amla/Indian gooseberry (Emblica officinalis; synonym: Phyllanthus emblica) both have antiviral action against coxsackievirus B, so this may be one of the reasons these herbs work for treating leaky gut. And these herbs may be doubly useful for people with enterovirus-associated CFS.

Refs: PMID19699238; PMID19374435; Terminalia chebula can protect Vero cells from CVB3 and CVB5

[/QUOTE]

 

[Hip]

I've had a closer look at the herbs you mentioned, especially emblica.

The first study did show a dose of the effective compound - 12mg/kg which is 600mg for myself.

However , that compount is from the root and the triphala is made from the flowers of the plant. So I don't think it wll be antiviral.
The 2nd study also looked at compounds from the root.

Refs: PMID19699238; PMID19374435; Terminalia chebula can protect Vero cells from CVB3 and CVB5

Well spotted, I did not notice that. I think triphala is made from the fruits of the three plants in this formula ("triphala" apparently translates to "three fruits").

It may be that the active anti-enteroviral compound in Phyllanthus emblica, namely phyllaemblicin B, is also found in the fruit and other parts of the plant, but I don't if it is or not. Nevertheless, triphala has been shown to help leaky gut.

And the Terminalia chebula part of triphala is antiviral for coxsackievirus B, and also, incidentally, for cytomegalovirus (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8891165).

 

[Tristen]

I just started this and it tastes yummy and feels good so far - for those who want to give it a try as well: http://www.holtraceuticals.com/categories/gastro-intestinal-support/gut-feeling-max-banana-cream.html

Thanks Mellster, Interesting, but very expensive and would need to last 2-3 months at least? Also, I can't read the ingredients, even with enlargement. I've emailed them on this.

 

[SaraM]

I have tried all the supplements Hip has mentioned. The only thing that really helped me with the burning pain on the left side of my belly button was 5 g Glutamine - Zinc, E, ... helped with my other conditions . It's only been 3 weeks and the burning pain is almost gone. I also take 500 mg Proline , 500 mg Lysine, and a little Slippery Elm with Glutamine. Herbal supplements have always been useless in my case, so I always stick to non- herbal ones and get great results.

 

[Hip]

I have tried all the supplements Hip has mentioned. The only thing that really helped me with the burning pain on the left side of my belly button was 5 g Glutamine - Zinc, E, ... helped with my other conditions . It's only been 3 weeks and the burning pain is almost gone. I also take 500 mg Proline , 500 mg Lysine, and a little Slippery Elm with Glutamine. Herbal supplements have always been useless in my case, so I always stick to non- herbal ones and get great results.

Funny you should mention a pain left of your belly button. I have had sensation at that spot (say one finger length left of my belly button) ever since my IBS started 12 years ago. The sensation never moves from that location, and it is tender if I press my finger into that place. But there are no specific organs there, so I am not sure what it could be.

 

[SaraM]

Hi Hip,
For me too. I mean the burning sensation does not move from that location. I think I read on the net it had something to do with intestine, but I might be wrong. My whole belly is tender and I feel pain if I press my finger into any part of it. I have had CFS for many years, but belly pain started just 5 years ago.

 

[Zuriel]

I only read the abstracts also.
I got the doses from various other leaky gut regimens I found online, and from herbalist sources. These doses I settled on are these:


Leaky Gut Protocol :
Saccharomyces boulardii (Jarrow) x 2 capsules
Grape seed extract 200 mg
Zinc carnosine 1 capsule (27.5 mg)
Vitamin E 400 iu
N-acetylglucosamine 500 mg
Triphala 1500 mg
Glutamine powder 1 heaped tsp (6 grams)
Slippery elm bark 1000 mg
Zinc 20 mg

But you can experiment with your own best dose.

Hip- Can you please let me know the brand for zinc carnosine 27.5mg? The ones from iherb come in 37.5mg. Thanks

 

[Hip]

Hip- Can you please let me know the brand for zinc carnosine 27.5mg? The ones from iherb come in 37.5mg. Thanks

Sorry, that was an error. The zinc carnosine I use is by Swanson, and it contains 37.5 mg of zinc carnosine per capsule (37.5 mg = 8 mg of zinc + 29.5 mg of L-Carnosine bound together in a molecular association).

 

[Zuriel]

Hip- Thank you for your helpful info. Have found the product.

 

[Daffodil]

not sure if this was mentioned on this thread, but dont forget about the soluble CD14 test...that might be the best test to indicate presence of leaky gut bacteria. UNVEX will be offering this test in January but i think you can get it from Labcorp too.

in HIV, elevated sCD14 is correlated with cognitive impairment and other conditions (heart?)

 

[August59]

Genova Diagnostics do a Intestinal Permeability Test:

http://www.gdx.net/product/10122

This is a home test, involving drinking these two lactulose & mannitol sugars, and sending in a urine sample for analysis.

Isn't there away to buy Genova Diagnostics test (at least some of them anyway) without going through a doctor? Seems like there was a thread on how to do this a year or so ago.

 

[maddietod]

About half way down this page is the intestinal permeability test.

Searching for tests at Direct Labs is very difficult. I usually just look alphabetically.

 

[Mr. Cat]

Can anyone else not handle triphala? I hear it's supposed to be good for the digestive system, but every time I take it (even as small dose of 1 gram/day), it causes discomfort.

 

[Vojta]

Hi,
I'm also going to try triphala for my gut. I will report later if I can handle it. Has anyone benefited from it?

 

[globalpilot]

Hi all,
For those interested, I was able to buy emlica root (not the flower) in bulk from Alibaba. It came from China. I have not tried it yet but will report the effects. I'm on oxymatrine right now. It's been 1 week at 300mg which I think is too low to have an effect.

GP

Well spotted, I did not notice that. I think triphala is made from the fruits of the three plants in this formula ("triphala" apparently translates to "three fruits").

It may be that the active anti-enteroviral compound in Phyllanthus emblica, namely phyllaemblicin B, is also found in the fruit and other parts of the plant, but I don't if it is or not. Nevertheless, triphala has been shown to help leaky gut.

And the Terminalia chebula part of triphala is antiviral for coxsackievirus B, and also, incidentally, for cytomegalovirus (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8891165).

 

[Hip]

Hi all,
For those interested, I was able to buy emlica root (not the flower) in bulk from Alibaba. It came from China. I have not tried it yet but will report the effects. I'm on oxymatrine right now. It's been 1 week at 300mg which I think is too low to have an effect.

GP

Good stuff. Let us know how the Phyllanthus emblica goes.

 

[xrayspex]

great thread
tristen really liking that article, this part:


Alverdy is finding success in treating patients with a strategy he calls ecologic neutrality. In research reported in the August 2008 Surgery, he was able to prevent P. aeruginosa from turning virulent in surgically stressed mice by dosing them with polyethylene glycol, which supplies the bacteria with phosphate, one of their primary needs. Once they sense theres plenty of phosphate, he says, they figure everybody must be happy here. The treated mice in his experiments, unlike the controls, did not contract fatal infections.e
http://www.miller-mccune.com/science/bacteria-r-us-23628/

remimds me of what someone said a couple pages back about needing their carbs--I am same way (suspect porphyria) the pain and dysfunction I get from trying to cut back carbs too much doesnt seem healthy......I wonder if there is a way to have yr cake and eat it too so to speak where everybodys happy....bacteria, bugs and me....

should have included this paragraph too from the article:
But a more ecological approach is beginning to offer hope. P. aeruginosa and C. difficile are common residents of human bodies and under normal circumstances are benign. So what turns them into enemies? Most of the time, says John Alverdy, an intestinal and critical-care surgeon at the University of Chicago, bacteria have to have a reason to hurt you. Surgery is just such a reason. A surgical patients normal metabolism is altered; usually nutrients are provided intravenously instead of through the digestive system, so in a patient being fed by an IV drip, the gut bacteria perceive their sustenance disappearing. A decline in available nutrients alarms them. And surgery triggers the release of stress compounds that bacteria also sense, Alverdy says. Chemotherapy and radiation have similar effects. When threatened, bacteria become defensive, often producing toxins that make the host even sicker. They also tend to speed up their acquisition of and purging of genes when under external selection pressure, of which antibiotics are an obvious and powerful example.

 

[maddietod]

I'm too late to edit my Dec 31 post, but my link didn't work. The test is here: https://directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx.

 

[Hip]

I recently found out that chloramine, a disinfectant put in tap drinking water, also may cause leaky gut. Ref: 1.