Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

drex13

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Has anyone used rifaximin/xifaximin to rid intestinal bacteria. I hear KDM uses this for gut treatment??

Rifaximin is a semisynthetic, rifamycin-based non-systemic antibiotic, meaning that very little of the drug will pass the gastrointestinal wall into the circulation as is common for other types of orally administered antibiotics. It is used in the treatment of traveler's diarrhea and hepatic encephalopathy, for which it received orphan drug status from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1998.





Contents
[hide] 1 Uses
2 Availability
3 References
4 External links


[edit] Uses

Rifaximin is licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to treat traveler's diarrhea caused by E. coli.[1] Clinical trials have shown that rifaximin is highly effective at preventing and treating traveler's diarrhea among travelers to Mexico, with few side effects and low risk of developing antibiotic resistance.[2] [3] It is not effective against Campylobacter jejuni, and there is no evidence of efficacy against Shigella or Salmonella species.

It may be efficacious in relieving chronic functional symptoms of bloating and flatulence that are common in irritable bowel syndrome.[4] There was recently a pilot-study done on the efficacy of rifaximin as a means of treatment for rosacea, according to the study, induced by the co-presence of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.[5]

In the United States, rifaximin has orphan drug status for the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy.[6] Although high-quality evidence is still lacking, rifaximin appears to be as effective as or more effective than other available treatments for hepatic encephalopathy (such as lactulose), is better tolerated, and may work faster.[7] The drawbacks to rifaximin are increased cost and lack of robust clinical trials for HE without combination lactulose therapy.

A recent study suggests that treatment with rifaximin relieves symptoms for some sufferers of irritable bowel syndrome. [8]

[edit] Availability

Rifaximin is currently sold in the U.S. under the brand name Xifaxan by Salix Pharmaceuticals. It is also sold in Europe under the names Spiraxin, Zaxine, Normix, Rifacol and Colidur, and in India under the name Rixmin, Rcifax, Rifagut and Torfix.

India's Lupin and US firm Salix Pharmaceuticals have joined forces to develop and commercialise an extended-release version of rifaximin using Lupin's proprietary bioadhesive technology


cheers!!!

I tried Xifaxin about a year and a half ago. I couldn't tolerate it and had to stop after 4 or 5 days. My diahrrea got considerably worse. It was not a fun week. But, it does seem to help alot of people, just not me.
 

anniekim

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I had severe IBS-D before getting ME/CFS, so my gut is a weak area, and I generally feel better across all CFS symptoms if I can stabilize the gut (ie, prevent diarrhea).

Having tried loads of things to treat my IBS-D, the leaky gut protocol I posted above worked the best: within 3 or 4 days of starting it, my digestion was much improved, and I generally felt better.

I am still taking the supplements, but now only once a day. I suspect that if I stop, my gut health may dwindle away slowly.

I unfortunately have not taken the leaky gut test, but I will do so in future.


In terms of what causes leaky gut: if you look at the list of causal factors above, you see that some causes are avoidable (NSAIDs like aspirin, chili peppers, paprika, cayenne pepper), but other causes are not so easy to avoid.

These unavoidable causes of leaky gut come from the micro-organisms in your gut:

LPS toxin made by certain bacteria in your gut, cytomegalovirus, which is a common virus, toxins from Clostridium perfringens and Clostridium difficile bacteria, enteropathogenic E. coli bacteria, and the common gut parasite Blastocystis hominis all increase gut leakiness.

So you can imagine, if an individual had several of the above simultaneously in their gut, the combined effect is going to more strongly promote gut leakiness.


It may well be that the leaking of LPS toxin from the gut into the bloodstream causes the most problems for CFS patients. LPS (lipopolysaccharide) not only helps cause leaky gut, but LPS is the pretty much the most pro-inflammatory substance known to man. Even tiny amounts of LPS can set off a whole cascade of inflammation. So if LPS is entering into the body at large, you can imagine that inflammation is going to be ramped up everywhere.

LPS also pushes the immune response away from the desired antiviral TH1 mode, and into the TH2 mode which is not good for CFS.

So LPS leakage form the gut is one way that leaky gut may be exacerbating CFS.
Thanks Hip for answering all my questions, appreciated. I suppose though what I am trying to understand is why do people with M.E get overgrowths of the bacterias you listed? Is it because the musocal immune system is faulty? I suppose it's the chicken and egg question, is it due to immune dysfunction that we get overgrowth of bad bacteria which then cause leaky gut which causes so many problems or is the leaky gut the root cause? In the link I profvided above, if I understood it correctly this person only felt better by not only taking rifaxin but also immunoglobulins (IVIG) and I also got the impression they thought that IVIG would have to be ongoing to maintain their improvements....

Saying all of that, I do take on board that if one can improve the leaky gut, one may well gain clinical improvement, if not cure...
 

Hip

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....... I suppose though what I am trying to understand is why do people with M.E get overgrowths of the bacterias you listed? Is it because the musocal immune system is faulty? I suppose it's the chicken and egg question, is it due to immune dysfunction that we get overgrowth of bad bacteria which then cause leaky gut which causes so many problems or is the leaky gut the root cause? ......
My feeling is that immunosuppressive viruses may be responsible for the bacterial overgrowth. Lots of viruses have immunosuppressive characteristics. Enteroviruses and HHV-6A for example. When you contract such a virus, then the bacteria start to proliferate. Then the LPS toxins, etc, from these bacteria have a further detrimental effect on antiviral immunity, thus making it harder for the body to clear the viruses. Something like that. CFS seems to comprise dozens of vicious circles like this; CFS seems like a giant ecology of multiple self-supporting vicious circles!

Actually, that could be a good alternative name for CFS: "vicious circle syndrome", or VCS !
 
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Hey Hip,

I think you are definately onto something here. Ever since I've been sick, leaky gut and dysbiosis have definately been making my symptoms worse. Actually, now that I think back, I had leaky gut/dysbiosis symptoms probably all the way back in middle school. Its weird though, since I know people who definately have dysbiosis but don't suffer the degree of fatigue or mental impairment or other symptoms like I do. It seems like something else is contributing to the leaky gut.

I am wondering, what is your diet like while on this protocol? I know its recommended that we cut back on carbs, but I definately don't do well on low-carb diets (ever since I got sick, low carb does not work for me). My brain feels much better when its getting the glucose it needs - the problem is when the bacteria overgrows in upper gut and start to ferment, causing brain fog/anxiety/fatigue, etc. So its a big problem for me - to get enough carbs in my diet while somehow managing the dysbiosis. Yet, maybe something else is causing the body to have dysbiosis - most people eat very poor diets and don't have as severe reactions as us. Its weird too - I can sometimes get symptoms right after eating - the food should not have reached the intestines yet, but I feel toxic/bad. It doesn't happen at every meal, but quite often, and its different feeling from a food sensitivity.
 

anniekim

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My feeling is that immunosuppressive viruses may be responsible for the bacterial overgrowth. Lots of viruses have immunosuppressive characteristics. Enteroviruses and HHV-6A for example. When you contract such a virus, then the bacteria start to proliferate. Then the LPS toxins, etc, from these bacteria have a further detrimental effect on antiviral immunity, thus making it harder for the body to clear the viruses. Something like that. CFS seems to comprise dozens of vicious circles like this; CFS seems like a giant ecology of multiple self-supporting vicious circles!

Actually, that could be a good alternative name for CFS: "vicious circle syndrome", or VCS !
THanks Hip for your reply. I suppose then the question ask myself is why are people with M.e reactivating these viruses? If my understanding is correct and I amy have understood it wrongly, a lot of people get these viruses but they remain latent as they are kept in check by the immune system. It does come back to the whole immune dysfunction....

In the link I provided in this thread the person seemed to imply that treating the gut with abx etc will only help for a bit...unless you can get IVIG... Makes me wonder is there any point trying to access abx etc....
 

globalpilot

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Things I know for sure can cause leaky gut:

a. bacterial overgrowth - from a researcher named Fassani (I think that's the spelling, it's the guy that studies zonulin)
b. gluten
c. enteroviruses

Motility issues and pancreatic output issues could cause a. I also learned enteroviruses cause pancreatic output issues. There are several things that could be going on here resulting in a nasty situation.

Thanks Hip for answering all my questions, appreciated. I suppose though what I am trying to understand is why do people with M.E get overgrowths of the bacterias you listed? Is it because the musocal immune system is faulty? I suppose it's the chicken and egg question, is it due to immune dysfunction that we get overgrowth of bad bacteria which then cause leaky gut which causes so many problems or is the leaky gut the root cause? In the link I profvided above, if I understood it correctly this person only felt better by not only taking rifaxin but also immunoglobulins (IVIG) and I also got the impression they thought that IVIG would have to be ongoing to maintain their improvements....

Saying all of that, I do take on board that if one can improve the leaky gut, one may well gain clinical improvement, if not cure...
 

Hip

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http://uegw.congress-online.com/guest/AbstractView?ABSID=13266

Enteroviruses also cause leaky gut for those of you with that viral issue. They also cause destruction of pancreatic acinar cells which produce digestive enzymes. It's just not a good scenario.
Nice link, globalpilot.

Two herbs recommended in the leaky gut protocol, namely: Haritaki (Terminalia chebula) and Amla/Indian gooseberry (Emblica officinalis; synonym: Phyllanthus emblica) both have antiviral action against coxsackievirus B, so this may be one of the reasons these herbs work for treating leaky gut. And these herbs may be doubly useful for people with enterovirus-associated CFS.

Refs: PMID19699238; PMID19374435; Terminalia chebula can protect Vero cells from CVB3 and CVB5
 

globalpilot

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Nice work on the Chinese herbs

Any idea where to get these herbs ? Can I just walk into a chinese herbalist and get them ?


Nice link, globalpilot.

Two herbs recommended in the leaky gut protocol, namely: Haritaki (Terminalia chebula) and Amla/Indian gooseberry (Emblica officinalis; synonym: Phyllanthus emblica) both have antiviral action against coxsackievirus B, so this may be one of the reasons these herbs work for treating leaky gut. And these herbs may be doubly useful for people with enterovirus-associated CFS.

Refs: PMID19699238; PMID19374435; Terminalia chebula can protect Vero cells from CVB3 and CVB5
 

Hip

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Any idea where to get these herbs ? Can I just walk into a chinese herbalist and get them ?
An Indian/Asain grocery store may have them in powder form (which is the cheapest way to buy). The Indian name is Haritaki. The Chinese name is He Zi.

I would just buy online: Haritaki OR Terminalia-chebula OR He-Zi powder

You may be better of buying triphala powder, as this herbal formula has Haritaki and Amla combined, plus one other herb. Triphala is well known in Indian stores.
 

globalpilot

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I didn't read those studies you posted in detail, just the abstract. But was wondering if you noticed a dose ? Dose is very important I think.

Normally I would order online from iherb but I'm leaving for 6 weeks monday so was looking for a local source.

An Indian/Asain grocery store may have them in powder form (which is the cheapest way to buy). The Indian name is Haritaki. The Chinese name is He Zi.

I would just buy online: Haritaki OR Terminalia-chebula OR He-Zi powder

You may be better of buying triphala powder, as this herbal formula has Haritaki and Amla combined, plus one other herb. Triphala is well known in Indian stores.
 

Hip

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I didn't read those studies you posted in detail, just the abstract. But was wondering if you noticed a dose ? Dose is very important I think.
I only read the abstracts also.
I got the doses from various other leaky gut regimens I found online, and from herbalist sources. These doses I settled on are these:


Leaky Gut Protocol :
Saccharomyces boulardii (Jarrow) x 2 capsules
Grape seed extract 200 mg
Zinc carnosine 1 capsule (27.5 mg)
Vitamin E 400 iu
N-acetylglucosamine 500 mg
Triphala 1500 mg
Glutamine powder 1 heaped tsp (6 grams)
Slippery elm bark 1000 mg
Zinc 20 mg

But you can experiment with your own best dose.
 

Tristen

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I only read the abstracts also.
I got the doses from various other leaky gut regimens I found online, and from herbalist sources. These doses I settled on are these:


Leaky Gut Protocol :
Saccharomyces boulardii (Jarrow) x 2 capsules
Grape seed extract 200 mg
Zinc carnosine 1 capsule (27.5 mg)
Vitamin E 400 iu
N-acetylglucosamine 500 mg
Triphala 1500 mg
Glutamine powder 1 heaped tsp (6 grams)
Slippery elm bark 1000 mg
Zinc 20 mg

But you can experiment with your own best dose.
Many of us can't take the the yeast, I would suggest trying it alone first if you go that route.
 

Hip

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Many of us can't take the yeast, I would suggest trying it alone first if you go that route.
Yes, some people also have problems with glutamine also, so a safer and cheaper version of this leaky gut protocol might be:

Grape seed extract 200 mg
Vitamin E 400 iu
Triphala 1500 mg
Slippery elm bark 1000 mg

Taken twice daily, at least to start with.

I cannot take oral zinc, it gives me stomach ache, so just crush down the zinc tablet into fine powder, and apply to my skin, where I assume it is absorbed slowly.
 

maddietod

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I just want to say thanks for this thread.

I'm dealing with candida right now, but once that's under control, I'm going to share all this information with my naturopath, and see if we can do this next.
 

Tristen

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Yes, some people also have problems with glutamine also, so a safer and cheaper version of this leaky gut protocol might be:

Grape seed extract 200 mg
Vitamin E 400 iu
Triphala 1500 mg
Slippery elm bark 1000 mg

Taken twice daily, at least to start with.

I cannot take oral zinc, it gives me stomach ache, so just crush down the zinc tablet into fine powder, and apply to my skin, where I assume it is absorbed slowly.

I think the Saccharomyces is worth a try since what it does in the GI system is a good thing eliminating some other forms of bad yeast, and therefore supporting the bacterial balance. Some people able to tolerate it, have found it helpful. I would just try it alone first.

I do that with everything involving multiple different supplements/drugs....I add one at a time so that in the event of a bad (or good) reaction I can see which it was. I rarely purchase combo supplements, unless I've already tried every one of it's ingredients.
 

anniekim

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Is it a waste of time taking the leaky gut supplements if you feel you've got bacterial overgrowth? Do you need to get rid of that first?

Thanks
 

Hip

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Is it a waste of time taking the leaky gut supplements if you feel you've got bacterial overgrowth? Do you need to get rid of that first?

Thanks
Not all all; you'd especially want to fix a leaky gut in cases of bacterial overgrowth. This is because a (Gram negative) bacterial overgrowth creates a lot of LPS toxin. LPS toxin is one of the most inflammatory substances known, and what's more, LPS can pass through a leaky gut, and get into the body as a whole, which is likely going to be a bad thing.