dreamydays
Senior Member
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- 182
- Location
- United Kingdom
I still think the metabolic trap theory has some merit. Robert Phair looked into genetic problems and his current theory is that tryptophan metabolism gets overloaded and we don't have the ability to process it and so we get stuck in a trap.
The enzyme which can process it is IDO1, as we lack IDO2; In order to process the tryptophan at the moment is to boost IDO1.
I tried a diet without tryptophan but taking 5-HTP so as to get enough serotonin. I did this for 2 weeks. Robert Phair suggested it would take 2 years, so I discontinued this, it was pretty horrible food!
As there is no way of getting iDO2 if you genetically don't have it or it doesn't function. So. I have experimented with boosting IDO1.
IDO1 Boosters
-Interferon Gamma is the main booster of IDO
-Interferon Beta and Alpha also boost IDO
-Robert Phair suggested HBOT
I may have forgotten some, so please contribute
My experience
As IFN-y is the main target so we started with Holy Basil. (Tulsi)
I found this beneficial and its only herb that I take. It has a quick benefit, I took it daily during this period and try to take this now intermittently when I can. We take 5-10g mixed with water and 3 sweeteners as its pretty bitter. Organic herb is better than low quality extracts, but they can help as well.
I then managed to buy interferon-gamma from Russia, unfortunately even though its medical grade, the dose was not strong enough to push IDO hard enough to clear enough trypyhphan. I checked doses and ending up taking 20 at the same. I managed to get a low grade fever, but not enough to push me out of the trap. It's possibly a potential treatment, but even from Russia it's way too expensive to pursue.
In terms of doses Interferon-Beta injections are stronger so I tried them next.
I found that 1 dose wan't strong enough so we went to 2 a day. Mrs dreamydays and I were both at our worst. Mrs Dreamydays needed the boost more so she did a week of 2 injections one day and then 1 injection the next day. This is about the limit of what we could take as it caused extreme fever and extreme joint pain. She was basically bedbound during the treatment. However, after the week she did feel an improvement.
The next thing (and much more affordable) was Oxymatrine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430867/
Mrs Dreamydays had to start very slowly with half a tablet and worked up to 3 a morning and 3 at night, This is what got her our of her bad phase and back to housebound and able to potter about and cook dinner. Every time she went up a dose she got a a headache for a few days and then felt a little stronger. She still takes this everyday.
I was able to go up to full dose within a few days. I feel it's beneficial, but I only take it intermittently now.
I also tried the peptide Thymosin Alpha1, which had a small positive effect
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14712598.2018.1484447
So in summary, I couldn't get out of the metabolic trap if it exists using interferon and other inducers. The most helpful things were the herbal supplements, although Mrs Dreamydays benefited from a week of high dose interferon beta, but the side effects were very strong.
In the end I got out of my slump by getting a bacterial infection and having IV antibiotics in hospital. I had a delirium and then dreamt that I went to some of kind of clinic and they cured my ME. Once I woke up I felt fantastic. By the time I got out of the hospital I was a little drained as they kept me in for 3 days as I was waiting for a CT scan which I didn't need. I needed a lawyer as I demanded to be discharged but they basically refused. They don't understand ME, and I felt so good I needed to get home and protect it. I still came out feeling better. When bacteria is killed it releases IFN-y in quite large amounts.
Its quite possible that my dream and delirium helped more than the infection/IFN-y due to LPS. However, I have had improvements from bacterial infections/antibiotics on a few occasions. Also the change in environment of being in a hospital could have a stimulating effect on my body.
Overall I can't say that the Metabolic trap theory is correct or completely off the mark. But I can say that good quality Holy Basil and a trial of Oxymatrine yielded good results and the peptide helped a little as well.
I know that many people have moved on from this theory, but there could be lessons to learn from my experiments/trials. In any case Interferons are very good at stopping latent infections from popping back up, so there is that possibility as well. Hope this information helps someone, or gets people thinking. In any case there is a good chance that IDO1's rate limitation means that you can never get it working well enough to solve this theoretical problem.
The enzyme which can process it is IDO1, as we lack IDO2; In order to process the tryptophan at the moment is to boost IDO1.
I tried a diet without tryptophan but taking 5-HTP so as to get enough serotonin. I did this for 2 weeks. Robert Phair suggested it would take 2 years, so I discontinued this, it was pretty horrible food!
As there is no way of getting iDO2 if you genetically don't have it or it doesn't function. So. I have experimented with boosting IDO1.
IDO1 Boosters
-Interferon Gamma is the main booster of IDO
-Interferon Beta and Alpha also boost IDO
-Robert Phair suggested HBOT
I may have forgotten some, so please contribute
My experience
As IFN-y is the main target so we started with Holy Basil. (Tulsi)
I found this beneficial and its only herb that I take. It has a quick benefit, I took it daily during this period and try to take this now intermittently when I can. We take 5-10g mixed with water and 3 sweeteners as its pretty bitter. Organic herb is better than low quality extracts, but they can help as well.
I then managed to buy interferon-gamma from Russia, unfortunately even though its medical grade, the dose was not strong enough to push IDO hard enough to clear enough trypyhphan. I checked doses and ending up taking 20 at the same. I managed to get a low grade fever, but not enough to push me out of the trap. It's possibly a potential treatment, but even from Russia it's way too expensive to pursue.
In terms of doses Interferon-Beta injections are stronger so I tried them next.
I found that 1 dose wan't strong enough so we went to 2 a day. Mrs dreamydays and I were both at our worst. Mrs Dreamydays needed the boost more so she did a week of 2 injections one day and then 1 injection the next day. This is about the limit of what we could take as it caused extreme fever and extreme joint pain. She was basically bedbound during the treatment. However, after the week she did feel an improvement.
The next thing (and much more affordable) was Oxymatrine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430867/
Mrs Dreamydays had to start very slowly with half a tablet and worked up to 3 a morning and 3 at night, This is what got her our of her bad phase and back to housebound and able to potter about and cook dinner. Every time she went up a dose she got a a headache for a few days and then felt a little stronger. She still takes this everyday.
I was able to go up to full dose within a few days. I feel it's beneficial, but I only take it intermittently now.
I also tried the peptide Thymosin Alpha1, which had a small positive effect
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14712598.2018.1484447
So in summary, I couldn't get out of the metabolic trap if it exists using interferon and other inducers. The most helpful things were the herbal supplements, although Mrs Dreamydays benefited from a week of high dose interferon beta, but the side effects were very strong.
In the end I got out of my slump by getting a bacterial infection and having IV antibiotics in hospital. I had a delirium and then dreamt that I went to some of kind of clinic and they cured my ME. Once I woke up I felt fantastic. By the time I got out of the hospital I was a little drained as they kept me in for 3 days as I was waiting for a CT scan which I didn't need. I needed a lawyer as I demanded to be discharged but they basically refused. They don't understand ME, and I felt so good I needed to get home and protect it. I still came out feeling better. When bacteria is killed it releases IFN-y in quite large amounts.
Its quite possible that my dream and delirium helped more than the infection/IFN-y due to LPS. However, I have had improvements from bacterial infections/antibiotics on a few occasions. Also the change in environment of being in a hospital could have a stimulating effect on my body.
Overall I can't say that the Metabolic trap theory is correct or completely off the mark. But I can say that good quality Holy Basil and a trial of Oxymatrine yielded good results and the peptide helped a little as well.
I know that many people have moved on from this theory, but there could be lessons to learn from my experiments/trials. In any case Interferons are very good at stopping latent infections from popping back up, so there is that possibility as well. Hope this information helps someone, or gets people thinking. In any case there is a good chance that IDO1's rate limitation means that you can never get it working well enough to solve this theoretical problem.
Boring, but zero TRP. I can't remember how long I was on that zero-TRP diet (one or two years) but I didn't notice any effect from it. I didn't suffer from any noticeable deficiencies either.
