Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

[Sallysblooms]

I'm still taking fish/animal protein as per the Wahls diet so presumably am covered for protein but there used to be a debate about whether you could get "complete" protein from plants alone - has that been resolved? It's decades since I skim-read about that!

LCarnitine is in some other foods, but I would not ever stop eating red meat. It is just full of good things, just not needed in large quantity. I stopped eating it for years and paid dearly. We are meant to eat a wide variety of foods. Just in the right amount.

 

[alex3619]

On dietary oils, I would like to make a plug for locally made extra virgin olive oil. The green stuff in the oil contains lots of antioxidants. In no way does this replace omega-3s, but it does provide some of the antioxidants we need.

Flaxseed/linseed oil is a short chain omega-3. I experimented with this for CFS (probably ME) in 1993, as did others. By itself it had only a tiny impact. Some years later I realized the issue is that often we cannot convert short chain omega-3s to long chain. This will improve with antioxidant intake being higher though. However, to be sure it would be better to take some flaxseed oil and some fish based omega-3s instead of just flaxseed oil.

This dietary approach is not new, far from it, but its the first time its recommended in such high quantities and discussed in such detail. I have used the different colours as a guide for many years, and eat veges like crazy. I cannot tolerate algae of any kind, go into rapid crash, but I can tolerate kelp. This is something I am going to think about, but I probably wont be able to find much Kale, its not popular in these parts. The other sulphur rich vegetables are easily available in Australia, and I ensure I eat a good amount each day.

Balancing protein as a vegetarian misses the point. The amount of protein required is quite high, and its very hard to do as a vegetarian. Balance is only part of the issue. I too was vegetarian for several years, and my health went down and down and down.

Bye
Alex

 

[anniekim]

Hi anniekim - yes, she does discuss supplements but it's quite lengthy and complex and not something I could summarise. Also, it's not clear to me how much of the supplements stuff would be MS-specific. I'm ignoring the supplements (not necessarily a good decision but I wanted to try the diet alone, first).

Here are my full notes on her book (which I didn't intend to fully summarise for myself - I've been a bit selective in not including supplements and maybe some other stuff):

Gradually increase number of servings per day to reach the target.

Daily:
3 cups dark leafy greens (e.g. spinach, lettuce, kale) or cruciferae (cabbage, broccoli); Wahls eats 6 cups of leafy greens/day.
3 cups brightly coloured veg or fruits (e.g. beets, red cabbage, carrots, berries, oranges), one each of:
o blue/purple
o red
o yellow/orange
3 cups your choice of veg (include onions/garlic, mushrooms)
Omega 3 source:
o cold-water fish
o grass-fed meat
o eggs from chickens fed flax or grass
o flax or hemp seeds
Mushrooms, nutritional yeast (Wahls takes 1-2 tbsp/day) and nuts or seeds
Minerals source: seaweed, dried kelp, brewers yeast. Seaweed has iodine, esp. kelp. Wahls rotates different algae (Klamath blue green, spirulina and chlorella) helps detox heavy metals, daily in smoothies. Takes 1tsp algae + 1-2 tsp kelp.
Cup of bone broth once a day or before each meal (magnesium, collagen, glucosamine etc. for bone health).
Clay footbath (detox). NB: clay removes medication from the bloodstream so dont take it if need meds.

Weekly:
organ meats (for B vitamins)

Also:
Turmeric (curcumin) in cooking, teas and smoothies helps produce GABA (& hence glutathione)
Matcha green tea, several cups/day, neuroprotective, improves concentration, mood, binds toxins
Potent antioxidants: green tea, cocoa, ginger, cloves, cinnamon, cardamom


White potatoes, corn, rice or grains dont count in the nine cups of vegetables and fruit. Can have them, but only if have eaten the nine cups.

May get bloating when start on Omega-3-rich foods at first; can use probiotic for several weeks.

Wahls uses flax oil instead of olive oil in salads because its higher in Omega 3.
​

Thanks Sasha, really appreciate you providing that summary, very helpful

 

[xchocoholic]

THANK YOU sasha .. would you mind if i copied this to the first or second post here so we can find it again ?

Hi anniekim - yes, she does discuss supplements but it's quite lengthy and complex and not something I could summarise. Also, it's not clear to me how much of the supplements stuff would be MS-specific. I'm ignoring the supplements (not necessarily a good decision but I wanted to try the diet alone, first).

Here are my full notes on her book (which I didn't intend to fully summarise for myself - I've been a bit selective in not including supplements and maybe some other stuff):

Gradually increase number of servings per day to reach the target.

Daily:
3 cups dark leafy greens (e.g. spinach, lettuce, kale) or cruciferae (cabbage, broccoli); Wahls eats 6 cups of leafy greens/day.
3 cups brightly coloured veg or fruits (e.g. beets, red cabbage, carrots, berries, oranges), one each of:
o blue/purple
o red
o yellow/orange
3 cups your choice of veg (include onions/garlic, mushrooms)
Omega 3 source:
o cold-water fish
o grass-fed meat
o eggs from chickens fed flax or grass
o flax or hemp seeds
Mushrooms, nutritional yeast (Wahls takes 1-2 tbsp/day) and nuts or seeds
Minerals source: seaweed, dried kelp, brewers yeast. Seaweed has iodine, esp. kelp. Wahls rotates different algae (Klamath blue green, spirulina and chlorella) helps detox heavy metals, daily in smoothies. Takes 1tsp algae + 1-2 tsp kelp.
Cup of bone broth once a day or before each meal (magnesium, collagen, glucosamine etc. for bone health).
Clay footbath (detox). NB: clay removes medication from the bloodstream so dont take it if need meds.

Weekly:
organ meats (for B vitamins)

Also:
Turmeric (curcumin) in cooking, teas and smoothies helps produce GABA (& hence glutathione)
Matcha green tea, several cups/day, neuroprotective, improves concentration, mood, binds toxins
Potent antioxidants: green tea, cocoa, ginger, cloves, cinnamon, cardamom


White potatoes, corn, rice or grains dont count in the nine cups of vegetables and fruit. Can have them, but only if have eaten the nine cups.

May get bloating when start on Omega-3-rich foods at first; can use probiotic for several weeks.

Wahls uses flax oil instead of olive oil in salads because its higher in Omega 3.
​

 

[anne_likes_red]

Hi Alex,

I do well with some olive oil. I have locally produced hemp oil I use on salads too, though less often. I was aware of a possible problem converting flax fatty acids in pwcs (and in autism spectrum people) but it's interesting you mention this might be less of an issue in the presence of all those anti-oxidants.

Kale has only recently become widely available in NZ. Before that the only way you could buy it was canned or dried in Dutch imported food shops. The first time I saw it fresh was in Toowoomba actually, in my grandfather's home garden. (He was a descendant of seed merchants which may explain why his garden wasn't too typical!)

I've been doing the GAPS diet since 2009, which includes bone broth and meat, fish or eggs at every meal. I recently cut nuts from my diet in an attempt to lower my arginine intake and I decided to look at ways I could get some more protein from vegetable sources rather than replace the nuts with yet more meat and eggs. That's where I came to look at protein from vegetable sources, and I was surprised actually at how much there is in some green leaves...even though in the scheme of things (at least of what I've always understood our needs to be) it's obviously not much at all!

Anne.

On dietary oils, I would like to make a plug for locally made extra virgin olive oil. The green stuff in the oil contains lots of antioxidants. In no way does this replace omega-3s, but it does provide some of the antioxidants we need.

Flaxseed/linseed oil is a short chain omega-3. I experimented with this for CFS (probably ME) in 1993, as did others. By itself it had only a tiny impact. Some years later I realized the issue is that often we cannot convert short chain omega-3s to long chain. This will improve with antioxidant intake being higher though. However, to be sure it would be better to take some flaxseed oil and some omega-3s instead of just flaxseed oil.

This dietary approach is not new, far from it, but its the first time its recommended in such high quantities and discussed in such detail. I have used the different colours as a guide for many years, and eat veges like crazy. I cannot tolerate algae of any kind, go into rapid crash, but I can tolerate kelp. This is something I am going to think about, but I probably wont be able to find much Kale, its not popular in these parts. The other sulphur rich vegetables are easily available in Australia, and I ensure I eat a good amount each day.

Balancing protein as a vegetarian misses the point. The amount of protein required is quite high, and its very hard to do as a vegetarian. Balance is only part of the issue. I too was vegetarian for several years, and my health went down and down and down.

Bye
Alex

 

[Dreambirdie]

The amount of protein required is quite high, and its very hard to do as a vegetarian. Balance is only part of the issue. I too was vegetarian for several years, and my health went down and down and down.

I was also vegetarian for about 8 years and even after I added some animal foods back into my diet in the late 80's, I didn't eat any red meat for about 12 more years. Then I had this dream of a giant billboard with the word RIB EYE, in big flashing red letters. I actually did not know what a rib-eye was, and had to ask a friend who told me it was steak! I went to the store and bought the teeniest piece I could buy, and it didn't even kill me to eat it. Now I eat red meat all the time. So glad I listened to my dream.

 

[Sasha]

THANK YOU sasha .. would you mind if i copied this to the first or second post here so we can find it again ?

Good idea, x - I should have posted it much earlier! Please do copy it.

 

[Sasha]

I've discovered a practical problem with the juicing! I did an online shopping order for enough stuff to juice and eat unjuiced that I thought would last me three days (I thought that was probably its max shelf life) and the volume of it is huge! I don't have a very big fridge (it just comes up to the height of the counter) and couldn't get all the stuff in.

Also, I was ordering from a different supermarket than usual and found I had ordered unwashed kale and spinach. Argh! Ideally I'd be getting organic but it's always unwashed. I don't have the ability to stand at the sink long enough to wash all this stuff. I'm having to throw it out!

So, for other people with small fridges, low energy and no carer - don't order too much, and consider sticking to pre-washed stuff!

Even if I just do one pint of juice a day, though, as an addition to the Wahls diet, it will be full of good stuff. It's a bit of a learning curve, changing diet!

 

[anniekim]

Sorry to hear you don't have a big enough fridge to store all the kale and a carer to help with preparation. I have a small fridge too but thankfully do have a carer through direct payments which is brilliant

Sasha, was thinking at the moment kale is in season but what leafy greens can one eat in the summer when kale won't be available? Would Swiss chard count? I know you can still get cabbage in the summer but am wondering about leafy greens... Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[Sasha]

I was also wondering about the end of the kale season! It seems to be dark, leafy greens that are the key ones. She has a (probably not meant to be exhaustive) checklist in her book for you to tick off how you're meeting your goals that, for the greens, includes kale, collards, mustard greens, turnip greens, leaf lettuce, beet greens, spinach and romaine (I think that's Cos lettuce). Is spinach, at least, in shops all year?

 

[anniekim]

Yes, think spinach is available all year. Does spinach count then? Never heard of beet greens, take it it's the leaves of the beet root plant?

 

[Sasha]

Yes, I think any dark, leafy green counts. As far as I know you're right about the beet greens but I've never seen them sold separately in a shop. I suppose if you buy beets from a grocer with the leaves still on, that's them.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Sasha, I think most of us will just do what we can. Since you can't store and do a lot (it is tiring for sure) just do what you can. Even though Dr. Wahls says to do it 100%, I know that every bit we can do and add is good. I don't want to feel pressure, I want to feel happy that I am doing more and more.

My hubby bought a lot of kale today. I will make Kale chips later. I am tired from going to church, a restuaruant and then using my scooter walking my dog just now. WHEW. I hope to get a LOT of Kale washed and cut up. Then it will be ready for juices. I am not going to be able to be 100%, but I am easing into it with the juices. My smoothies are already good, I will just add.

 

[Sasha]

Hi Sallysblooms - you're right, we can only do what we can. The last few weeks have been useful in terms of learning how to get the maximum benefit from the minimum effort!

 

[anniekim]

Good point Sallyblooms about doing what we can. I know you have written about this before but I can't remember what are in your smoothies? Would you mind sharing again? Thanks

Sasha, good luck with it all and once again thanks for providing a summary of Wahl's book, so very appreciated

 

[Sallysblooms]

I sure will share. I think they are wonderful!

I put in one banana, some frozen blueberries, mangos or peaches, blackberries or strawberries, 1/2 of an apple, little carrots, Greek Yogurt, one scoop of Green's First (has GREAT stuff in it) a scoop of Whey powder, oatmeal for lots of fiber, and Orange juice. I am going to add some parsley soon.

This really fills me up! It is so funny, I never get tired of it after all these years! My little dog loves when it is smoothie time! She knows she will be getting her antioxidents too!!!!

 

[anniekim]

Thanks Sallyblooms, sounds like it packs a punch!

 

[Sallysblooms]

Yes, it is great!!!!

I just made Kale chips. Here is a picture. Hubby and I love them! I forgot to get a pic, but there are a few left. They look wet, but are dry. Love how they crunch.

 

[Dreambirdie]

YUM, Sally! I want some. Pass me the bowl.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Well, I was just on Dr. Wahl's facebook page asking about my chronic kidney stones. She said I need to talk to a dietician. High greens diets are very complicated with this problem. GEE, I can't win! I will be very careful and not add a lot of greens, what a shame.