Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

[Sasha]

When you've had time to look through her book, would you please make a comment about what you think of it? I was thinking about ordering it, but it is rather pricey. May well be worth it.

Hi sky - I bought the (yes, pricey!) book, hoping for more detail on the diet. Surprisingly, it's quite hard work to fathom what exactly the diet is - I had to take notes, cross-reference quantities and so on to finally get it. I wish she had just produced a checklist with weights in grammes.

The first half of the book (about 60pp) is the rationale for the diet. I don't understand biochemistry but it's sort of reassuring to know that she does and that's it's a well thought-out plan (as far as I could tell). The rest is mostly recipes but I generally find other people's recipes pretty useless because my tastes usually aren't the same as theirs and I have to decide for myself how to translate the basic ingredients into things I'll enjoy eating. If you are less picky about your food, you might find the recipes useful! The big exception, though, is the recipe for kale chips - it tastes like crispy seaweed (yum!) and involves considerably less chewing.

One thing about these expensive books is that if you don't want to keep them, you can list them for resale on Amazon and (for this book anyway) get most of your money back.

 

[Sasha]

I'm interested in the possibility of mixing juicing with Wahls' regimen. I bought the book a few weeks ago, and have been unable to eat even a fraction of the amount of vegetables she consumes (600g dark leafy greens, 100g each red, yellow, blue/black). OK, some of this is fruit, which is out for me at the moment (fighting candida). But that plus enough meat/fish to add up to 50-75g protein daily? I'm not even close.

I was already eating no-starch paleo, so I thought this shift would be relatively easy. What happened is I lost my appetite on the very low carbs, and I just don't eat very much.

Any thoughts on working up to the full dose of veggies through a lot of juicing? How much is lost with what's thrown away?

Hi madie - I'm having the same problem - I also bought the book a few weeks ago and can't get anywhere near her quantities so have been thinking about juicing. I'm surprised she doesn't mention juicing anywhere at all in her book. Anyone have any thoughts?

The diet is all quite hard work - Dr Wahls must have had help to have done it when she was initially so ill. All the food prep is a killer.

 

[Sasha]

Incidentally, on the raw vs cooked issue, I remember Dr Wahls saying that you get/can absorb more enzymes with raw but more minerals with cooked (I think).

 

[anniekim]

Hi Sasha,

I watched Terry Wahl's short video which was very interesting. From the video I couldn't work out is she advising to completely avoid grains and dairy?

Also does she say anything about legumes/lentils? Are they allowed?

The video has spurred me on to increase even further my fruit and veg intake but I confess I would find completely cutting out dairy and grains very hard. I do get so hungry. I think I would have to 100% believe in it to be fully committed.

Regarding dairy. Does she in the book suggest alternatives? Is soya ok? I used to drink soya milk but then I kept reading soya milk was not good for you so switched to goats milk which I seem to be able to tolerate. Would love to know if she says soya is ok. Hope it's ok asking these questions. Many thanks

The diet is expensive but all very interesting....

 

[Sasha]

By the way, Dr W's book isn't available on UK Amazon. I ordered mine from US Amazon and it arrived reasonably quickly with the slightly-expedited delivery (slight extra cost).

It's an expensive book but then I've paid more for a single session with a chiropractor to work on problems with my back caused by the immobility caused by my ME so think of it as a treatment, rather than just a book!

 

[Sasha]

Hi Sasha,

I watched Terry Wahl's short video which was very interesting. From the video I couldn't work out is she advising to completely avoid grains and dairy?

Also does she say anything about legumes/lentils? Are they allowed?

The video has spurred me on to increase even further my fruit and veg intake but I confess I would find completely cutting out dairy and grains very hard. I do get so hungry. I think I would have to 100% believe in it to be fully committed.

Regarding dairy. Does she in the book suggest alternatives? Is soya ok? I used to drink soya milk but then I kept reading soya milk was not good for you so switched to goats milk which I seem to be able to tolerate. Would love to know if she says soya is ok. Hope it's ok asking these questions. Many thanks

The diet is expensive but all very interesting....

Hi anniekim - it's always OK to ask questions, no problem!

She recommends trying (for MS, who knows for us?) two approaches to identifying any food sensitivities. One is eating a very highly restricted diet and reintroducing one food a week. The other is excluding the most common allergens - milk, eggs, gluten (wheat, rye, barley), legumes (including soy, peanuts, cashews) - and reintroducing them on a rotation diet (which I didn't understand). Most symptoms turn up within 72 hours in response to an allergen so I was going to just clear these from my diet for a week then reintroduce one every four days and see if anything happened.

There are non-gluten grains such as oats etc. She gives recipes for making almond milk and the like but all that is very effortful so I just eat almonds! I think she recommends hemp milk as well (in the UK, Tesco and Waitrose sell this). I wouldn't drink hemp milk for pleasure but it's palatable enough if it's doing me good!

She says you can only have the starchy stuff if you've already had your portions of the other stuff (3 leafy greens, 3 of each of the colours, 3 of any of those).

I regard this stringent period of being on the diet as a test period and not forever. Even if the diet helps, I don't see that it's necessary to follow it 100% to get most of the benefit.

 

[Chris]

Wahls and juicing

Hi, all--thanks for useful suggestions and info. To follow up on this juicing thing, there is a short talk by a guy among the "supplements" to the DVD of "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead" that talks about the rationale for juicing as founded on giving the digestive metabolism a rest for over 12 hours before healing processes begin (I have forgotten the guy's name--I rented the DVD, may have to buy it...), and so am particularly interested in the comments that suggest you have to juice a lot for it to have much effect. I also recall a discussion on this forum some time ago which suggested that most of the very few stories of full recovery from ME seemed to involve a period of hospital parenterol (i.e. direct to the intestines) feeding. Maybe there is some magic in taking major stress off the first stages of the digestive system for a sustained period of time.

So I am going to experiment a bit by taking some juice every day but taking a juice fast (i.e. nothing but juice) one day a week, and if I don't lose weight on that (can't afford more weight loss!) extending that to two days a week. Just to see what happens. Obviously one loses a lot of fibre juicing, but I have been eating enough solid high fibre food while juicing that that has not caused any problems.

I have also taken on board suggestions from Denise Minger and Stephanie Seneff that we may need more sulfur bearing amino acids (cysteine, methionine, etc), and have upped my intake of onions, broccoli and cabbage, and egg whites; still very reluctant to follow the paleo route into red meat and that kind of stuff--Campbell and Esselstyn loom large over my shoulder--but now eat the occasional scallop too.

I will get hold of that "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead" DVD again, and try to follow up on those suggestions about why juicing may have particular value--it does seem clear that gut issues are central to ME/CFS.
Best wishes, Chris

 

[Sasha]

To follow up on this juicing thing, there is a short talk by a guy among the "supplements" to the DVD of "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead" that talks about the rationale for juicing as founded on giving the digestive metabolism a rest for over 12 hours before healing processes begin (I have forgotten the guy's name--I rented the DVD, may have to buy it...), and so am particularly interested in the comments that suggest you have to juice a lot for it to have much effect.

Thanks, Chris - here's a (charming! seriously!) trailer on YouTube for Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead. Certainly made me want to watch the DVD! There's a website here called hulu.com where apparently you can watch the movie - is this legit? It says you can't watch it outside the US so I can't see it. I wouldn't want to rob the guy who made it.

The guy has a website .

 

[Chris]

Hi, Sasha; the trailer gives the flavour of the movie--but could not get anywhere with the hula.com site. The movie is worth watching--and will post again when I check out that guy on the "why" issue again. Chris

 

[Sasha]

Argh, doesn't seem to be a way of watching this in the UK - the DVD is US Region and I don't think will play on my UK player. There's an instant video thing on Amazon where you pay and watch online but again, it's US only. What a shame. Rave reviews of the movie on US Amazon.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Incidentally, on the raw vs cooked issue, I remember Dr Wahls saying that you get/can absorb more enzymes with raw but more minerals with cooked (I think).

Yes, cooking and raw are so different. You need both. No need to just eat raw, cooked is also good.

I agrees, even if we do not eat tons of the greens, etc, just making us think a bit more and eating a more veggies and fruit it good. I don't eat gluten but I love oatmeal and brown rice. I am looking forward to trying the kale chips and will add more sea veg.

 

[anniekim]

Thanks Sasha, really appreciate your detailed reply

I note Dr Terry Wahl used not only diet but specific supplements and electro stimulation to achieve her remarkable recovery. Interesting stuff

 

[Sasha]

Thanks Sasha, really appreciate your detailed reply

I note Dr Terry Wahl used not only diet but specific supplements and electro stimulation to achieve her remarkable recovery. Interesting stuff

Hi anniekim - that's very true, she was doing extra stuff. She has just completed a preliminary trial of her protocol with other MS patients (details here) and is seeking funding for a larger trial. Very promising results. It would be good to know what role the electrostimulation plays in addition to the diet - maybe they'll look into that.

 

[maddietod]

Thanks for the link to Hulu; I just watched the movie. Their main juice is almost completely green; I'm going to follow Wahls' recommendations about mixing the colors, and use juicing to get my vegetable intake up. I can't eat raw beets, but I added a cooked one today, and that worked well.

 

[anniekim]

Thanks for that link Sasha. Was interesting to read the results of that initial trial.

The diet aspect is extremely interesting (alas for m.e exercise would be difficult and I know the exercises were tailored to the problems arising in MS)

As dr wahl acknowledges the diet regime is expensive. I have no idea how much grass fed meat would cost but I imagine a pretty penny. Whatever, I'm definitely going to increase my fruit and veg and perhaps drop the goats milk...

 

[Sasha]

Thanks for the link to Hulu; I just watched the movie. Their main juice is almost completely green; I'm going to follow Wahls' recommendations about mixing the colors, and use juicing to get my vegetable intake up. I can't eat raw beets, but I added a cooked one today, and that worked well.

I wish I could see the movie! I'm surprised there's no book. I'm waiting for their Reboot website to come back up (under construction) in the hope that it has detailed info about recipes, etc.

I tried some juices using kale last night, expecting them to be nasty and the juicer not to be able to handle the kale but I was wrong on both counts - I made some pleasant juice with kale, apple and ginger and could easily get somewhere near Dr Wahls's intake if I did that. Otherwise, I've got no chance with the greens because I'm not well enough to spend enough time in the kitchen prepping this stuff and eaten raw, it's too much chewing (I ended up with very painful jaw muscles years ago when I tried an all-raw diet which took years to relax!).

Juicing it is! Lemon juice is also supposed to cut the bitterness in the green juices.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks for that link Sasha. Was interesting to read the results of that initial trial.

The diet aspect is extremely interesting (alas for m.e exercise would be difficult and I know the exercises were tailored to the problems arising in MS)

As dr wahl acknowledges the diet regime is expensive. I have no idea how much grass fed meat would cost but I imagine a pretty penny. Whatever, I'm definitely going to increase my fruit and veg and perhaps drop the goats milk...

I've seen some grass fed lamb online here in the UK and it seems to be about 50% more. Still, I think it's good to even approach the Wahls diet: if we can do it 70% or 80% or something and are covering most of the nutrient bases, it's surely got to help, even if we're not being perfect at it.

Oh! I've been getting ocean-caught prawns (shrimp?) from my supermarket, which Dr W recommends rather than farmed ones. They're high in Omega 3 because they feed on algae, in the same way that animals that feed on grass are high in Omega 3. They don't cost any more than ordinary prawns. I'm eating them every day and hoping to supplement occasionally with grass-fed meat, if I can find a good source.

 

[Sasha]

Recipe for Joe Cross's "Mean Green" juice

I found this recipe for Joe Cross's Mean Green juice (presumably the main one he used?) on this site, which has several for green juices:

6 Kale Leaves
1 Cucumber
4 Celery Stalks
2 Green Apples
1/2 Lemon
1 piece of ginger

NOTES FOR MAKING JUICE
peel or slice off lemon rind leaving some of the white pith
to juice small leaves such as parsley and cilantro, roll them up into a ball to compact the leaves
wash all vegetables and fruits before making juice
buy organic if possible

 

[anniekim]

I've seen some grass fed lamb online here in the UK and it seems to be about 50% more. Still, I think it's good to even approach the Wahls diet: if we can do it 70% or 80% or something and are covering most of the nutrient bases, it's surely got to help, even if we're not being perfect at it.

Oh! I've been getting ocean-caught prawns (shrimp?) from my supermarket, which Dr W recommends rather than farmed ones. They're high in Omega 3 because they feed on algae, in the same way that animals that feed on grass are high in Omega 3. They don't cost any more than ordinary prawns. I'm eating them every day and hoping to supplement occasionally with grass-fed meat, if I can find a good source.

Hi Sasha,

Are you supposed to eat the kale, greens raw? I didn't realise, thought they were cooked. What about the cabbage etc?

Thanks for the green juice recipe. Does Terry wahl say anything about juicing?

If you manage to source any grass fed meat here in the uk, would you let me know? Would be greatly appreciated

Many many thanks

 

[maddietod]

I joined 'reboot your life' last night. It looked like it was going to load my info page forever so I just closed it, and this morning I got an email to activate the account. It's free to join.

I found a page of juice recipes, which I probably can't post here because you have to join to see them. He has protein counts for all the juice blends. His greenest juice has 16g protein, which makes me happier about juicing to get my veggie intake up.

Anniekim, I don't eat the kale raw. It is usually juiced raw, but I don't see why I couldn't juice it after cooking.

Dr. Wahls says nothing about juicing in her book.