Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

[Sasha]

Hi Sasha,

Are you supposed to eat the kale, greens raw? I didn't realise, thought they were cooked. What about the cabbage etc?

Thanks for the green juice recipe. Does Terry wahl say anything about juicing?

If you manage to source any grass fed meat here in the uk, would you let me know? Would be greatly appreciated

Many many thanks

Hi anniekim - Dr W doesn't say either way about whether you should eat raw or cooked - she says she eats more raw stuff in the summer but it's always a mix. Enzymes are more intact in raw food but minerals more bioavailable in cooked. Surprisingly, she says zero about juicing.

Sheepdrove.com (currently not loading on my computer or I'd give you a hyperlink!) do grass-fed lamb and online delivery. Not sure if their other stuff is grass-fed.

 

[Sasha]

I joined 'reboot your life' last night. It looked like it was going to load my info page forever so I just closed it, and this morning I got an email to activate the account. It's free to join.

I found a page of juice recipes, which I probably can't post here because you have to join to see them. He has protein counts for all the juice blends. His greenest juice has 16g protein, which explains how Dr. Wahls gets her protein count so high.

Interesting - I just got a page saying they were overloaded and constructing a new site with more content. I gave my email address to get notification of when they were back up. Odd you looked at the same time and managed to get in! I must have done something wrong.

 

[Purple]

Thank you everyone for valuable information. I hope this thread continues. I am thinking of doing Dr Wahls' eating plan - though I plan to transition to it over a few months, drastic changes never work for me.

Here is my experience with curly kale so far:

I have a bowl of curly kale before most meals as a sort of starter. I have a carer who prepares all this for me. Boil the kale for 5 minutes and then eat it while still warm. It's palatable (especially with salt/pepper/other herbs and drizzled with a little olive oil), not too tough though still needs a lot of chewing. Each bowl is about 50-60g before cooking. So 3x a day, this is 150-180g. I wonder if chopping it finely in a kitchen robot before boiling would make it easier to eat for those of us who get exhausted from chewing...

Curly kale chips are simply yummy. Crispy, addictive, don't last long around here! They almost melt in your mouth so not much chewing required. You can munch on them throughout the day, as a snack, they could be made differently flavoured with drizzling them with different oil/herb mixture before baking. We make them in the oven, it takes about 20 minutes. The disadvantage is that if they are left in the oven a minute or two too long, they get brown quickly. I am planning to make them in a food dehydrator (when I get round to getting one!) so that they contain more enzymes.

Will try the juicing too! I have a centrifugal juicer and usually not much juice comes out when juicing greens. What juicers others use more successfully?

Leftover pulp can be boiled with other leftover pulp and bits from juicing (or some people even use leftover peels!) to make broth to sip throughout the day. (Boil for a long time, then strain through a sieve for a thin broth or through a colander for a thicker, soupy broth. Lots of minerals.)

In these ways, I think eating 200g of curly kale or more a day is possible.

 

[Sasha]

Good stuff, Purple. I've been doing 200g (uncooked weight) of the chips a day (divided into two roasting trays - each gets ten mins at the top of the oven and ten at the bottom). I'm using pre-chopped kale and have found it's necessary to remove the bits with thick, tough stalks beforehand otherwise they hold too much moisture and mess up the process. As you say, it's very easy to eat a lot of chips with little effort - they just crumble and dissolve in the mouth with not much to chew.

I'm using a cheap (centrifuge?) juicer and it's managing to get juice out of the kale surprisingly well. I'm keen not to overdo cooked kale because I want the enzymes.

My local supermarket (Tesco in the UK) has 145g bags of chopped kale that you can stab a few times and microwave so that the kale is steamed. I then toss it in oil, balsamic vinegar (1tsp each) and salt. Online, Tesco seem to sell only 200g bags, which is too much (really, 145g is too much but it's a convenient way to cook the kale). You can buy microwave steam bags from Ebay if you want to choose your own quantity.

 

[Valentijn]

Argh, doesn't seem to be a way of watching this in the UK - the DVD is US Region and I don't think will play on my UK player. There's an instant video thing on Amazon where you pay and watch online but again, it's US only. What a shame. Rave reviews of the movie on US Amazon.

Most, if not all, DVD players can be reprogrammed to play DVDs from various regions.

Found that out when me and my DVDs moved from the US to Europe

 

[Sasha]

Most, if not all, DVD players can be reprogrammed to play DVDs from various regions.

Found that out when me and my DVDs moved from the US to Europe

Thanks, Valentijn, that's good news (the bad news being that I will have to read my DVD player's manual!).

 

[Chris]

Hi, Purple; you ask about juicers--after some investigation (you can find lots of demos on YouTube) and inquiry, I bought an Omega 8004 masticating juicer--pretty expensive, but simple, very sturdy (15 year guarantee!) and very quick to clean. It does a very good job on leafy greens and carrots etc, a less good job on fruit. The juicer used for the movie was a Breville centrifugal--seemed to do a very good job, though check for cleaning time--if you use it frequently, this becomes a real factor... Still investigating why a juicer rather than a high power blender--they have their advocates too--you get the fibre, but also higher temperature processing, which may do some harm?

Quite honestly, the DVD of "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead" is relatively low on specific info--all you really need to know is --lots of veggies, especially those dark green ones, some brightly coloured fruit, and improvise--ginger and lemon do a good job of adding flavour and cutting dark green bitterness. The results will inspire, but remember that the chief juicers were both seriously overweight and had a nasty autoimmune disease--most of us can't contemplate a 60 day juice fast! I will have to check out that reboot website again when it has settled down a bit.
Best, Chris

 

[Sallysblooms]

I have a Breville juicer and blender. Both are VERY good. There are really good ones out there, so important with blenders and juicers.

 

[Sasha]

Hi, Purple; you ask about juicers--after some investigation (you can find lots of demos on YouTube) and inquiry, I bought an Omega 8004 masticating juicer--pretty expensive, but simple, very sturdy (15 year guarantee!) and very quick to clean. It does a very good job on leafy greens and carrots etc, a less good job on fruit. The juicer used for the movie was a Breville centrifugal--seemed to do a very good job, though check for cleaning time--if you use it frequently, this becomes a real factor... Still investigating why a juicer rather than a high power blender--they have their advocates too--you get the fibre, but also higher temperature processing, which may do some harm?

Quite honestly, the DVD of "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead" is relatively low on specific info--all you really need to know is --lots of veggies, especially those dark green ones, some brightly coloured fruit, and improvise--ginger and lemon do a good job of adding flavour and cutting dark green bitterness. The results will inspire, but remember that the chief juicers were both seriously overweight and had a nasty autoimmune disease--most of us can't contemplate a 60 day juice fast! I will have to check out that reboot website again when it has settled down a bit.
Best, Chris

Thanks, Chris - I was shocked by the price of the better juicers (300!!!!) but you're right about easy cleaning being a crucial thing. For those of us barely able to look after ourselves, it's hard to stand at the sink cleaning out a juicer (I once ruined a juicer by leaving the pulp in it to rot because I was too exhausted to clean it for several days). Also, if you can get more juice out of a good juicer then I hope it would eventually pay for itself.

Good to know there's not much specific info I'm missing in the movie and I certainly don't need to lose more than about 3 lbs. Interesting that both those guys had an autoimmune disease, given the speculation that ME is such a disease. I'm curious to know how soon people with non-weight-related disease notice health benefits from such a diet, quite apart from weight loss.

 

[Sallysblooms]

They are expensive. But the cheaper ones do not extract much juice, they waste a lot. With cheaper blenders, they break. I have tried them and now, I never replace my better brand. I would have saved money by buying them in the first place.

 

[anne_likes_red]

Juice fasting..

Hi Chris,

I've done vegetable juice fasts twice lasting more than 30 days and several times lasting around 10 days. I use both a twin gear juicer for juice I'll drink later, and a Breville centrifugal - which gives me more juice from cabbage and kale. On the longer fasts I also used some young coconut water and young coconut kefir. I need about 50 oz juice per day. That's a lot of vegetables. :Retro smile:

It feels as if my body switches into a fairly aggressive "detox" mode after about 18 - 24 hours. I stop wanting food around then and so long as I drink juice around every 2 1/2 hours through the day I don't feel weak. The only times I've felt really bad for the first few days, and lost significant weight (5lbs) was on my first couple of juice fasts back when I was eating grains. I had terrible headaches and weakness in the beginning.
My intention when trying a 30 day fast was to see if I could get rid of the low level autoimmune/inflammation pain that's become a permanent symptom in the past six years. Previous "fasting" and, probably more important cutting grains from my diet had already helped my joint pain. I've seem accounts online of longer fasts "reversing" all kinds of things.
...Anyway, my longer (not long enough?) juice fast which turned out to be 33 days, didn't help with improving or reversing any autoimmune pain.

I think I could manage a longer trial, it's actually pretty straightforward when you get into the swing of it. But I don't know that I'd want to. My sense is that we need building up - ie lots of sulfur aminos like you mentioned. First class protein along with lots of lower starch vegetables, and maybe some juice. I do feel I absorb nutrients better from ALL those things in the absence of grains.

Best,
Anne.
PS FWIW I lost very little weight on the longer fasts. No more than a couple of pounds.

 

[Purple]

I bought the book a few weeks ago, and have been unable to eat even a fraction of the amount of vegetables she consumes (600g dark leafy greens, 100g each red, yellow, blue/black). OK, some of this is fruit, which is out for me at the moment (fighting candida). But that plus enough meat/fish to add up to 50-75g protein daily? I'm not even close.

100g of each red, yellow and blue/black is not that difficult to achieve (just relatively expensive). However, 600g of leafy greens is very, very hard.

Where do things like avocado and kiwi fruits fit in? They are not dark green (and ok, they are fruits) but both very nutritious. And carrots - they are orange, so a mixture of yellow/red? And onions and garlic - are they yellow? (I imagine that after eating 100g of garlic and onions, one would easily get a seat on the bus or lots of privacy in crowded places so at least some benefits)

 

[Sasha]

Hi Purple - in the book, the greens she talks about seem to be leafy greens or members of the cruciferous family (broccoli etc.). There's a list of green stuff at the back (p. 179, for those who have the book) and it doesn't include kiwi or avocado (I wondered about this too).

The colours are red, yellow/orange (which is the carrots group), and blue/black. Onions and garlic are in the onion (alliums - includes leeks & chives as well)/mushroom group. If I understand correctly you're supposed to have 1 cup total (i.e. some allium, some mushroom making up that cup). I'm glad I live alone, onion-wise!

An easy way of cooking onions is to buy a bag of ready-chopped onion and toss it in oil & balsamic vinegar (1:1) with sea salt and roast it on a tray in the oven. You can keep it in the fridge and have a dollop a day.

 

[anniekim]

Thanks Sasha for the name Can I just clarify the amounts of fruit and veg. Dont really understand cup measurements i'm afraid being a Brit. Is it daily:

100g each of red, orange, blue/black
300g leafy greens such as kale etc?
300g cruciferous veg, cabbage, broccoli etc
?g onions/mushrooms

Many thanks in advance, very appreciated.

 

[Chris]

juicing and veg

Hi; I looked again at the DVD of "Fat, Sick and nearly Dead," and the name of the doc who offers a theory as to why juicing "fasts" may work is identified as Alexander Junger, though his name on the net is Alejandro Junger. He is a cardiologist who now has a varied practice and is on the "circuit." He has written a book called "Clean," which is cheap and I have on order.

In a section cut from the movie he offers "The Facts about Fasting," which boil down to this; digestion takes a lot of energy--we basically get energy from oxygen, not food, and reducing or suspending digestive processes frees a lot of metabolic energy for detox processes, which involve the skin, the lungs, the digestive system, the liver.... In paleo times, we lived on a feast /famine-fasting rhythm, but modern 3-5 meals a day has robbed us of full-time detoxing, with a consequent build-up of damaging toxins. He sells various mixes, runs detox clinics, and has had celebrities such as Gwyneth Paltrow give him positive references.

I don't know that I trust him totally, but will read his book with interest.

Ann_likes_red: many thanks for the details of your experiences! wow, a 33 day juice fast, and you lost only a few lbs! But your final verdict is that even this did not help much or at all--I am sorry. But I think I will try a couple of days to see if there is any response. I have cut down on grains, but have not eliminated them--though I have cut out gluten and dairy totally. And I still eat legumes, including fermented soy--tempeh and miso.

We now have evidence for at least 3 regimes that have shown success with autoimmune diseases: McDougall with his starch/ vegan diet and RA, and possibly MS (study in progress); vegan juicing and Urticaria; and now Terry Wahls and high veg and select animal products with severe MS. Common to all three are dark green vegetables in considerable quantity, and elmination of dairy and gluten (I think). We do not yet know whether ME really is a "pure" autoimmune disease, or a viral disease that prompts some autoimmune activity--and the same uncertainty dogs MS. I guess we have each one to choose a path, and hope it produces improvement if not cure. While waiting for the chance to try Rituximab or Gc-MAF or whatever else shows up with real promise.

In the meantime exchanging notes on this forum can help.

One note on kale--there are many varieties, and I have found diamond kale both easier to juice and to eat lightly steamed and cut up into small portions, which can be added to soups or whatever.

Best, Chris

 

[Sallysblooms]

we basically get energy from oxygen, not food

Not quite. But juicing is good like my smoothies are good. I do not fast though.

 

[Chris]

Hi, Sallysblooms--point taken, I agree he is simplifying--I certainly need food! I did omit one perhaps important detail from Junger's account though: he says digestion takes about 8 hours and that it takes another 3-4 hours for energy to divert to detox processes, so that people who never wait more than 12 hours between meals are virtually shutting the process down. I don't know what evidence there is for this, but it would make schedules like this feasible: a good hearty breakfast, and then only juice till the next breakfast 24 hours later; I think I will try that for a couple of days a week, and see what, if anything, changes. Chris

 

[maddietod]

Speaking of evidence, I'm looking for corroboration of the protein content of vegetable juices, given on the Reset website. I have been unable to find anything. If anybody finds a good source of information, I'd love to look at it.

 

[Chris]

Madietodd, good question--I have so far been unable to really get into the Reboot site (is that what you meant?), and have found little on the protein content of juice. Dr. Mercola, who is big on juicing, says it has little protein, and I found one site that said Campbell's V8 juice had something like 15% of calories from protein, which is pretty high. I know that solid broccoli has a surprising % of calories from protein, but don't know the corresponding figure for the juice. However, Colin Campbell and Esselstyn and McDougall all tell us that we don't need as much protein as some of us think, and I doubt that it would become a problem except in the case possibly of a really prolonged juice fast. Certainly the two documented in the movie did just fine for 60+ days. Chris

 

[Sasha]

Thanks Sasha for the name Can I just clarify the amounts of fruit and veg. Dont really understand cup measurements i'm afraid being a Brit. Is it daily:

100g each of red, orange, blue/black
300g leafy greens such as kale etc?
300g cruciferous veg, cabbage, broccoli etc
?g onions/mushrooms

Many thanks in advance, very appreciated.

Hi anniekim - my interpretation of her book is:

100g each of red, yellow/orange, blue/black
300g leafy greens/cruciferous veg, cabbage, broccoli etc
300g your choice fruit/veg, but to include alliums/mushrooms

She specifies 1 cup = 100g.