Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

[xchocoholic]

I have oxalate problems too. The treatment is to lower your oxalate input by eliminating or strictly avoiding high oxalate foods. The tryinglowoxalate board has a list of how many oxalates
are found in each food. You have to join but they don't spam you.

Tricks that I know of for processing oxalates better include taking calcium citrate 30 minutes prior to eating . Also
magnesium citrate helps some but i'm not sure if the timing matters.
Mag + b6 works for some too. This combo appears, kow, to be helping me right now. These are discussed on that board.

I just settle for doing what I can here too. I'm finally comfortable with the paleo / whole foods
concept but it took me a few years. I have a few tricks if you're interested. I soak veggies in a large sink to eliminate most of the dirt. I buy the straight kale because it's easier to clean and prep. When removing the stem in kale, just peel back about 2 inches from the bottom, grab the stem in one hand and the rest of in in the other
hand and pull down slowly along the stem line.

All stems are high in oxalates so remove as much as possible. Certain
high oxalate foids affect some more than others. Chocolate nails me.
: ( ... Boiling high oxalate foods helps to remove oxalates.

gotta go eat .. Tc ... X

 

[Sallysblooms]

Thanks xchoc, I do take all of those supplements. Dr. Wahl's talks about it on her Facebook page and you sure have to be careful. She tells everyone to rotate the greens to make sure they do not get stones, even people without stones have to be careful. I guess moderation keeps proving to be the key.

 

[xchocoholic]

Thanks xchoc, I do take all of those supplements. Dr. Wahl's talks about it on her Facebook page and you sure have to be careful. She tells everyone to rotate the greens to make sure they do not get stones, even people without stones have to be careful. I guess moderation keeps proving to be the key.

Hi sally,

Imho, that won't work because it does't take oxalates into account. Substituting high oxalate foods
with other high oxalate foods will still lead to stones. The woman heading up the trying low
oxalate board, susan owens, is the DAN oxalate researcher. She startef this board because
autistic kids were having oxalate problems AFTER going on the gfcf diet. Their parents had increased their high oxalate foods .. Pecan meal, Nuts, etc.

The same thing happened to me in 2007 - 8. I was eating raw leafy greens, nuts, etc when I had my first stone. Reducing my oxalates reduced my female pain too. : ) . I get this pain back if I over due oxalates everytime. Dehydrated kale, chocolate, almonds and spinach are my biggest triggers. This is where the supplements seem to be
helping tho.

Tc .. X

 

[anniekim]

I tried to make some kale chips in the oven today. I used curly kale. They browned up very quickly. Is flat leaf kale better, perhaps? Many thanks

 

[Sallysblooms]

The picture I showed above is curly kale. You can try flat, but curly is pretty, hehe. Whatever works better for ya.

Here I am on my new scooter.

 

[Sasha]

I tried to make some kale chips in the oven today. I used curly kale. They browned up very quickly. Is flat leaf kale better, perhaps? Many thanks

I'm using pre-cut, pre-washed curly kale for chips and it seems to go from green and bendy to brown (almost black) very quickly - I'm wondering if I'm eating ashes sometimes (still taste good, though!). Do you think I should be using a lower temperature oven? I'm using 175 C in a fan oven.

 

[anniekim]

Hi Sasha, I tried roasting them on a lower temp which seemed to work well as they did not brown up so much

From the methylation boards I see you are considering trying Fredd's protocol. I believe he believes some people may not tolerate eating loads of greens due to their high folate content. What are your thoughts? Thanks

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, anniekim - that's a good tip for the kale.

I tried Freddd's protocol this summer but unfortunately was getting rapidly debilitated on it and couldn't identify the cause so I had to come off it. I switched to Rich's protocol nearly three months ago and so far haven't seen results so was wondering what to do next.

I've been following the discussion about eating lots of greens and folate with interest. I didn't notice any adverse effects when I started on the Wahls diet (three weeks ago). Previously, I had eaten hardly any greens and went from a daily average of probably 35g before to 200g on the Wahls diet. Fred notices adverse effects very quickly when he overdoes it on the greens, although he seems to get much more clearcut reactions to any change in his diet and supplements in a way that I don't, which presumably is due to his genetic makeup.

I'm hoping that greens/folate is not a problem for me, given that I've not noticed a problem so far. In fact, I have today read The Green Smoothie Diet (basically advocating using smoothies to increase your intake of greens particularly, and other phytonutrients - here's the author's website) and want to try using green smoothies as a way of getting the sort of quantities of veg and fruit down my neck that Dr Wahls does. I've been trying juicing for the last few days but am finding it difficult because my juicer, like all of them, is difficult to clean and I'm unable to stand for long enough at the sink for it to be easy for me to do. Blenders are much easier to clean. Also, I can see that my cheap juicer isn't extracting much juice so I'm wasting a lot of the ingredients; and the fibre in the smoothies should help keep my blood sugar steady and do all the good stuff that fibre does. Plus, I find preparing food very difficult indeed because of my inability to stand for long in the kitchen and the idea of just shoving stuff in the blender and drinking it seems very attractive!

So I just got out of bed at 1am UK time (insomnia!) to go online and order myself a blender. I think that if I feel worse with even more greens than I've been having, I'll find out pretty quickly (and I can sell the blender on Ebay!).

What do you think?

 

[Sallysblooms]

Sasha, If the greens don't work, just make smoothies with other ingredients! YUMMY and so good for you. I make one daily. I look forward to it after YEARS of them.

I love the "Minding My Mitochondria" book. Got it the other day.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, Sally - and I'm glad you're finding the mito book interesting.

 

[maddietod]

Re. Juicing

Dr. Wahls posted this on facebook this morning:

People have used juicing to make it easier to get the 9 cups of vegetables/ berries to make it easier to get 9 servings in each day. It is also common to have some level of detoxification (more fatigue, headache) in the first week which resolves and then improves markedly by week two.

 

[xchocoholic]

I came here to try to edit this in but can't find the edit button on my first or second post .. ok .. i looked at this again and i only have the edit capability on this post not my first or second on this thread ... what's up with that ? as an ex computer programmer the ability to edit an old post should be easy. rats ...

Here are my full notes on her book (which I didn't intend to fully summarise for myself - I've been a bit selective in not including supplements and maybe some other stuff):

Gradually increase number of servings per day to reach the target.

Daily:
3 cups dark leafy greens (e.g. spinach, lettuce, kale) or cruciferae (cabbage, broccoli); Wahls eats 6 cups of leafy greens/day.
3 cups brightly coloured veg or fruits (e.g. beets, red cabbage, carrots, berries, oranges), one each of:
o blue/purple
o red
o yellow/orange
3 cups your choice of veg (include onions/garlic, mushrooms)
Omega 3 source:
o cold-water fish
o grass-fed meat
o eggs from chickens fed flax or grass
o flax or hemp seeds
Mushrooms, nutritional yeast (Wahls takes 1-2 tbsp/day) and nuts or seeds
Minerals source: seaweed, dried kelp, brewers yeast. Seaweed has iodine, esp. kelp. Wahls rotates different algae (Klamath blue green, spirulina and chlorella) helps detox heavy metals, daily in smoothies. Takes 1tsp algae + 1-2 tsp kelp.
Cup of bone broth once a day or before each meal (magnesium, collagen, glucosamine etc. for bone health).
Clay footbath (detox). NB: clay removes medication from the bloodstream so dont take it if need meds.

Weekly:
organ meats (for B vitamins)

Also:
Turmeric (curcumin) in cooking, teas and smoothies helps produce GABA (& hence glutathione)
Matcha green tea, several cups/day, neuroprotective, improves concentration, mood, binds toxins
Potent antioxidants: green tea, cocoa, ginger, cloves, cinnamon, cardamom


White potatoes, corn, rice or grains dont count in the nine cups of vegetables and fruit. Can have them, but only if have eaten the nine cups.

May get bloating when start on Omega-3-rich foods at first; can use probiotic for several weeks.

Wahls uses flax oil instead of olive oil in salads because its higher in Omega 3.

 

[Sasha]

Hi x - when I look at my old posts, there's a grey bar across the bottom that includes an 'edit post' option, no buttons - and on this one I'm writing, no bar but only buttons. Don't know if that helps!

 

[xchocoholic]

fwiw ... I'd go easy on making this change to your diet. If you're addicted to gluten and casein, this can take awhile to get out of your system. Doctors of autistic kids warn the parents to go about reducing these slowly to aviod withdrawal complications.

As for eating all these greens and other detoxing foods, go slowly here too. Most of us have accumulated toxins and releasing these all at once will just make us feel sicker ... Juicing made me very sick when I tried it a few years ago but I can handle it now. Just not as my sole source of food. I can handle things like spirulina now too but at first it made me feel really sick.

Also, I found myself trying to cram all these veggies down my throat and figured out that I really can't over eat. It makes me a little nauseas and comes back up on me. Cooking the veggies helped but not when it comes to over eating. My understanding is that this is hard on our livers too ... so we'll all have to make these little adjustments for ourselves.

tc ... x

 

[xchocoholic]

Hi x - when I look at my old posts, there's a grey bar across the bottom that includes an 'edit post' option, no buttons - and on this one I'm writing, no bar but only buttons. Don't know if that helps!

I looked again and still no edit option on my first and second posts here .. they look the same on the bottom
as your post did ... thanks tho ... i just can't trust my cfs brain anymore ... lol ... tc ... x

 

[xchocoholic]

Here is a long interview (51 minutes) with Dr Terry Wahls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPVsO8omy4&feature=youtu.be

Um, here's the video I meant to link to earlier too. I copied the wrong one in one of my earlier posts ... lol ... I'm fighting h pylori so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it ... lol ...

This one is long but well worth it. I've seen it several times now ... tc ... x

 

[maddietod]

There's a time limit on editing posts. I think it's a week.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Dr. Wahls posted this on facebook this morning:

People have used juicing to make it easier to get the 9 cups of vegetables/ berries to make it easier to get 9 servings in each day. It is also common to have some level of detoxification (more fatigue, headache) in the first week which resolves and then improves markedly by week two.

Is everyone here succeeding getting this much food in on a daily basis?

I am eating all the foods on the list, but just not in the amount she suggests. I have already been detoxing from the increase in greens (cooked) and don't think I could handle much more of them right now. It's really A LOT of food to get down!

Also, I am so prone to picking up infections, especially in winter, that I don't feel comfortable eating raw food that I can't wash with soap and peel. I am trying to figure how to work with this... It's not as easy as I thought.

 

[Sallysblooms]

It is good to go slowly on all changes with veggies. We don't want anyone to get Kidney stones. Don't want to rush and raise oxalates, uric acid etc. I know I cannot eat that much with my stones, but I don't want anyone to have this problem. Go slowly.

 

[Sasha]

Hi Dreambirdie - no, I'm nowhere near the quantities. I've been getting over a bug this last week which has made it harder for me to prep food and I'm probably at best getting each day 200g greens, 70g mushrooms, 70g of each of the colours and a bit more of the yellow/orange group. Haven't managed to eat from the allium group most days. So she recommends 900g and I'm getting maybe 500g.

That's why I'm heading down the blender route. Having to wash and peel stuff is hard when we have no energy. I've been using pre-washed kale and spinach from the supermarket and have discovered diced onion sold in packs (some supermarkets sell fresh, some frozen). I'm planning to try some frozen stuff (maybe defrosted) in the blender such as spinach and berries.

Xchoc has a good point about making the change in diet slowly. Also, (I know I've said this before!) although Dr Wahls is keen for people to 100% do the diet, she also says to change over to it gradually; and I really do think that we can only do what we can do. Doing the diet 60% might not be 100% but it's loads better than 0%. I don't see why we have to be perfect to get any benefit. If we're improving our nutrition, we should see some benefit, if this diet is ever going to work for us; it just might take longer.