Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[SWAlexander]

@Hip following your results what is going to be your next approach?

If Hip likes to look for some other very nasty bugs:
GS/CX: very rare growth: bacteremia: Staph epidermidis and Peptostreptococcus, one colony Staph caprae, Corynebacterium species,”

 

[Hip]

Bucking the trend I mentioned earlier (where different species of bacteria appeared on separate days in my urine tests), today on some chromogenic agar I incubated overnight (containing bacteria taken from a urine dipslide test done the day before yesterday), I found all three of my bacterial species appearing at the same time.

This is picture of the CLED agar on my urine dipslide, showing about 6 spots where bacteria have grown:

Urine Dipslide CLED Agar Showing a Few Circular Spots of Bacteria Growth

When I transferred a few of these spots (using a sterile hypodermic needle) to a fresh chromogenic agar plate, you can see that I got one blue-green area of growth, as well as white areas, and dark blue areas (respectively indicating Enterococcus, Staphylococcus or Streptococcus, and coliform bacteria):

Chromogenic Agar Showing 3 Species of Bacteria Growth

So it's clear that the above dipslide captured all 3 species of the bacteria in my kidneys / urinary tract that I had previously observed.




Interestingly, when doing these dipslide urine tests (and I have performed over a dozen of them now), sometimes I only get only a few spots of bacterial growth on the urine dipslide agar (like the 6 spots shown on the dipslide just above), but other times I get a very dense growth of bacteria on my dipslide, like the urine dipslide shown below, which was literally covered with tiny speckles of bacterial growth, as well as larger growth spots:

Urine Dipslide CLED Agar Showing Abundant Growth Of Bacteria (Turned Out To Be Coliform Bacteria)

The above dipslide turned out to have coliform bacteria growing on it (or at least, the particular spots of growth on the above dipslide which I transferred to the chromogenic agar turned out to be coliform bacteria; it could be that there were other species of bacteria growing on some areas of the dipslide agar).

For the above dipslide, the night before the morning when I exposed the dipslide to my urine stream, I'd taken 3 heaped teaspoon of cranberry sauce, and 2 grams of D-mannose, which are both known to prevent urinary tract bacteria attaching to the urinary tract lining, causing the bacteria to slip off the lining, and get flushed out in the urine. So that could explain why I had such an abundance of bacteria on the above dipslide.

However, I have also seen quite high levels of growth on my dipslides without taking cranberry and D-mannose, although not quite as abundant as the above growth.

 

[lint7]

The inconsistency makes me wonder if it is actually a kidney infection. It might instead be a prostate infection.

 

[SWAlexander]

Suggestion: stay away for 3 days from anything with lemon, vinegar, apple cider, cranberry, and try again. If the outcome confirms your previous findings, I would seek medical help. But research before taking ANY antibiotics. Not all work for all bacteria.

 

[SWAlexander]

The inconsistency makes me wonder if it is actually a kidney infection. It might instead be a prostate infection.

according to BIO-lab: "kidney infection usually happens when bacteria, often a type called E. coli, get into the tube that carries urine out of your body (urethra). The bacteria travel up to your bladder, causing cystitis, and then up into your kidneys."

 

[Hip]

@Hip following your results what is going to be your next approach?

I am working with the Markov Clinic to see if it is possible to become a remote patient, as detailed in this earlier post. The clinic has never had remote patients before; usually patients or their relatives visit the clinic. So I will be their first remote patient — if it works out.

We are seeing if it is possible for me to ship bacteria on agar to the clinic, and seeing whether those bacteria survive the journey.

If they survive, it should be possible for the Markov Clinic to make some autovaccines from my bacteria, and ship them back to me in the UK. I can then start injecting the autovaccines at home, according to the schedule followed by Dr Markov.

The UK has liberal customs laws regarding importation of pharmaceutical drugs, so I am hoping there will be no problem in importing autovaccines, but this is something being looked into. Laws may vary by country.

I have already paid $200 for an email consultation with Dr Igor Markov, and he confirmed that given my symptoms and and health history, I appear to be a classic CBIS patient. I am now in the process of trying to ship my bacteria to the Ukraine.

If being a remote patient works out, I will post up a set of guidelines and instructions based on what I have learnt, so that if other members want to become remote patients, then they can benefit from the learning curve I am going through.

Though I must admit I've found it very interesting but also hard going to do all this bacteria testing, and my brain fog is actually relatively mild these days. So it might be a difficult cognitive task for a patient with more severe brain fog.

Of course if you are healthy enough, there is no reason why you cannot just take a trip to Kyiv, and see Dr Markov in person. Using Airbnb, you can get accommodation within walking distance of the clinic for around $30 a night.

 

[Hip]

If Hip likes to look for some other very nasty bugs:
GS/CX: very rare growth: bacteremia: Staph epidermidis and Peptostreptococcus, one colony Staph caprae, Corynebacterium species,”

We are not really searching for nasty highly pathogenic bacteria. The Markov CBIS theory of ME/CFS posits that relatively harmless commensal bacteria exist in a dysbiotic state in the kidneys. It is the dysbiosis in the kidneys he believes leads to ME/CFS.

 

[SWAlexander]

I am working with the Markov Clinic to see if it is possible to become a remote patient, as detailed in this earlier post. The clinic has never had remote patients before; usually patients or their relatives visit the clinic. So I will be their first remote patient — if it works out.

We are seeing if it is possible for me to ship bacteria on agar to the clinic, and seeing whether those bacteria survive the journey.

If they survive, it should be possible for the Markov Clinic to make some autovaccines from my bacteria, and ship them back to me in the UK. I can then start injecting the autovaccines at home, according to the schedule followed by Dr Markov.

The UK has liberal customs laws regarding importation of pharmaceutical drugs, so I am hoping there will be no problem in importing autovaccines, but this is something being looked into. Laws may vary by country.

I have already paid $200 for an email consultation with Dr Igor Markov, and he confirmed that given my symptoms and and health history, I appear to be a classic CBIS patient. I am now in the process of trying to ship my bacteria to the Ukraine.

If being a remote patient works out, I will post up a set of guidelines and instructions based on what I have learnt, so that if other members want to become remote patients, then they can benefit from the learning curve I am going through.

Though I must admit I've found it very interesting but also hard going to do all this bacteria testing, and my brain fog is actually relatively mild these days. So it might be a difficult cognitive task for a patient with more severe brain fog.

Of course if you are healthy enough, there is no reason why you cannot just take a trip to Kyiv, and see Dr Markov in person. Using Airbnb, you can get accommodation within walking distance of the clinic for around $30 a night.

What will you do if the bacterias are confirmed? You would need antibiotics and the right one. No dr. will accept the diagnosis from a dr in another country.

 

[Hip]

What will you do if the bacterias are confirmed? You would need antibiotics and the right one. No dr. will accept the diagnosis from a dr in another country.

You really need to do some background reading so that you understand the Dr Markov's CBIS theory of ME/CFS and his treatment.

 

[sb4]

@Hip You ever look into the feasibility of making your own autovaccines?

 

[SWAlexander]

You really need to do some background reading so that you understand the Dr Markov's CBIS theory of ME/CFS and his treatment.

Well, my diagnosis, MRI, CT from the USA is not accepted by German doctors.
All my symptoms are dismissed. So all my 40 years of experience is questioned and I can barely get the right medication, because.... they have their own theory. Hope you have more luck.

 

[Hip]

@Hip You ever look into the feasibility of making your own autovaccines?

I did, but I was not able to find much information online regarding the process. As an old technology which dates back to before the antibiotics era, it may be that some old books will contain the necessary details. So it might require going to a university library.

I did manage to find some useful info on autovaccine preparation in this book (see pages 410 to 412). The basic process is that you grow some bacteria in a nutrient solution, then heat kill them at the appropriate temperature, then dilute down the solution to the appropriate concentration.

But there are two crucial things you need to do properly, in terms of safety, and I think this makes trying to do it yourself questionable:

(1) Ensuring that the cultured bacteria are properly heat killed. If there are any which remain alive, then they can infect the injection site, and that can cause an abscess. I believe autovaccine preparations are tested on some fresh agar first, and the agar is observed to ensure that no bacteria growth is seen. Bacterial growth would indicate that the preparation is not sterile.

(2) You have to inject the right amount of heat-killed bacteria, but no more. If you inject too much, it can cause a fierce immune response which can even be fatal. So obviously this is a very crucial safety consideration.

 

[Hip]

So all my 40 years of experience is questioned and I can barely get the right medication, because.... they have their own theory. Hope you have more luck.

The treatment for CBIS is an autovaccine treatment prepared by Dr Markov. At present, nobody else is offering this treatment to ME/CFS patients, so the only way to get the autovaccine therapy is to become a patient of Dr Markov.

 

[SWAlexander]

The treatment for CBIS is an autovaccine treatment prepared by Dr Markov. At present, nobody else is offering this treatment to ME/CFS patients, so the only way to get the autovaccine therapy is to become a patient of Dr Markov.

Please tell u´s about your progress and healing.

 

[Hip]

Please tell u´s about your progress and healing.

It takes 2 to 3 years to get fully cured from ME/CFS using autovaccines, according to Dr Markov, so I would not sit at the edge of your seat on this one! Although the first improvements should appear earlier than that.

When I start the autovaccine treatment, maybe 6 to 12 months later I will be able to report some initial improvements, but if this therapy is curative as Dr Markov states, it will only be in 2 or 3 years that I will be able to report a full cure, if it occurs.

 

[Hipsman]

For the above dipslide, the night before the morning when I exposed the dipslide to my urine stream, I'd taken 3 heaped teaspoon of cranberry sauce, and 2 grams of D-mannose, which are both known to prevent urinary tract bacteria attaching to the urinary tract lining, causing the bacteria to slip off the lining, and get flushed out in the urine. So that could explain why I had such an abundance of bacteria on the above dipslide.

Oh my god, I just realized that Dr, Igor Markov prescribed me supplement capsules with the main ingredient being cranberry!

From instructions:

active ingredient - dry cranberry concentrate (10: 1) - 265 mg, containing 26.5 mg of proanthocyanidins.

 

[Hip]

Oh my god, I just realized that Dr, Igor Markov prescribed me supplement capsules with the main ingredient being cranberry!

I wonder if he prescribed cranberry to help eliminate the kidney dysbiosis (because cranberry is a standard alternative treatment for UTIs), or if he prescribed cranberry to help flush out the kidney bacteria so that you might capture them on the dipslide agar?

 

[Hipsman]

I wonder if he prescribed cranberry to help eliminate the kidney dysbiosis (because cranberry is a standard alternative treatment for UTIs), or if he prescribed cranberry to help flush out the kidney bacteria so that you might capture them on the dipslide agar?

To help eliminate the kidney dysbiosis I think, becouse he prescrived to take it twice daily ( in the mournin and before sleep ) for 3 months (maybe even longer)

 

[BrightCandle]

Bucking the trend I mentioned earlier (where different species of bacteria appeared on separate days in my urine tests), today on some chromogenic agar I incubated overnight (containing bacteria taken from a urine dipslide test done the day before yesterday), I found all three of my bacterial species appearing at the same time.

This is picture of the CLED agar on my urine dipslide, showing about 6 spots where bacteria have grown:

Urine Dipslide CLED Agar Showing a Few Circular Spots of Bacteria Growth
View attachment 44743

I only did a few Uricult dipslides so far (they took a while to arrive) but one of them showed signs of bacteria growth, the other did not. Not ideal circumstances since I didn't heat them but its enough to show it might be an issue so the remaining dipslides will get the 37.5 C treatment and I'll see what they show at 24 hours.

I'll know more in a few days/weeks but I see similar growth on the green side of the Uricult and nothing on other side.

 

[BrightCandle]

Got a couple Cooking in the sous vide bath today, should have properly 37.5C warmed 24H results tomorrow.