Dr. Chia Produces New Form of Oxymatrine

[globalpilot]

It is $250. The process is outlined here: http://www.enterovirusfoundation.org/pdfs/Immunoperoxidase_Staining_Request_Form250.pdf

Good luck! I just got my results a few weeks ago and I have it in over 50% of my stomach biopsy.

GP

Anyone knows the cost of test for enterovirus and the procedure? I was directed to www.evmedresearch.com but could not find out how the procedure is carried out?
Dr in Australia shook his head and laughed when I mentioned the possibility of enterovirus making my gut feel so awful.

 

[globalpilot]

Regarding ARUP CBS or anyone who can shed light.l I have contacted them and am having a heck of a time arranging this test. They are telling me they can only test through Labcorp and the closest Labcorp that has an account iwth them is 10 hours way.

How are others handling this ? Do you just happen to be close to a labcorp that is a client ?

 

[CBS]

Regarding ARUP CBS or anyone who can shed light.l I have contacted them and am having a heck of a time arranging this test. They are telling me they can only test through Labcorp and the closest Labcorp that has an account iwth them is 10 hours way.

How are others handling this ? Do you just happen to be close to a labcorp that is a client ?

Dr. Chia ordered my tests through Quest Diagnostics (it did require special instructions). I live in SLC (before I got sick, my office shared a parking lot with ARUP). Local physicians routinely send out labs directly to ARUP. If you're in the states and you have a physician/hospital willing to draw and send out the sample, I suspect your PC doc could order the test through ARUP. (Montoya is now having Stanford labs draw and send samples to ARUP in SLC). I've seen specialist in/lived in/visited several different states (Minnesota, Ohio, California, Colorado, Utah) and they've all sent samples from their offices/hospital labs to ARUP.

 

[Zuriel]

Thanks, globalpilot. Was the stomach biopsy procedure carried out under general anaesthetic and what was the total cost of the procedure, including fees for the gasteroenterologist, anaesthetist and hospital stay?
This information would help decide if I can afford to make a trip over to see Dr Chia for consultation and tests for enterovirus. I understand Dr Chia has a 6-month long wait list. I have been having loads of gut issues
since as a toddler and doctors here only treat me symptomatically since my stomach biopsy showed minimal inflammation. I strongly believe the gut is the main reason why I get CFS.

All the best in your treatment.

 

[globalpilot]

Thanks CBS. I'm in Canada and theyare telling me they can't accept samples from canada. Seems a little odd.

Zuriel - I've had gut issues from a very young age as well. I live in canada so the cost of the endoscopy was covered by our provincial health plan. But I didn't stay in a hospital and I don't think people generally do. Basically as soon as I woke up I went home. The test was performed under general anesthesia.

My biopsy showed no inflammation yet Dr Chias test showed infection in > 50% of the cells. He reports results in 1 of three categories: 0, <50%, >50%. I had a consult with him a week ago and he actually said "wow, you have a lot of viruses". So even with your low inflammation you could still have an enterovirus issue.

 

[CBS]

Thanks CBS. I'm in Canada and they are telling me they can't accept samples from Canada. Seems a little odd.

I'm sorry to hear that. My antibody testing done at other labs was never anything to get too excited about. When my results came back from ARUP (ordered by Chia) the results were a full forty times higher than any of the previous tests and they appeared cleaner (several enteroviruses had tested at 1:8 - marginal, through ARUP everything was either clearly positive or clearly negative).

Zuriel - I've had gut issues from a very young age as well. I live in canada so the cost of the endoscopy was covered by our provincial health plan. But I didn't stay in a hospital and I don't think people generally do. Basically as soon as I woke up I went home. The test was performed under general anesthesia.

My biopsy showed no inflammation, yet Dr Chias test showed infection in > 50% of the cells. He reports results in 1 of three categories: 0, <50%, >50%. I had a consult with him a week ago and he actually said "wow, you have a lot of viruses". So even with your low inflammation you could still have an enterovirus issue.

My local GI said that my local biopsy was entirely normal (no inflammation or pathology). But my immunohistochemistry (IHC) was "highly positive" (done at a far more expensive lab than Dr. Chia's) and when Dr. Chia saw pictures from my latest endoscopy he pointed out all of the areas of clear discoloration caused by enteroviruses.

I asked my local doc how his results could have been so confidently negative while the IHC and blood tests showed strong evidence for enteroviruses and he replied that they he doesn't test for enteroviruses because he doesn't know how to treat them. I strongly disagree with his logic. When you don't know what's wrong, you keep looking for an answer and that search is expensive, exhausting, and puts you at risk of complications from much of the testing and misguided trials of treatments doomed to fail. This logic is also flawed in that you don't know what you have and you can't keep an eye out for potential treatment innovations.

IHC of tissue samples by Dr. Chia and blood tests done at ARUP were clearly the way to go (after numerous false starts with the wrong tests and the right tests done through the wrong lab).

 

[globalpilot]

I'm going to keep trying to find a way to get the antibody testing through ARUP as I think it's crucial. Dr. Chia suggested it and I really do need a marker. Thanks for sharing your testing experience CBS.

Your point about keeping an eye out for potential new treatments is so important. During my talk with Dr Chia he mentioned 3 things in this regard:

a. the NIH is looking for new chemical and herbal treatments for polio which he says may be applicable to the other enterovirus
b. DRACO which chops up the viral RNA
c. 2 new drugs on the horizon for hepatitis which may be useful

 

[Abha]

Hi All,
I have enjoyed reading all the threads here...very informative...I'm a longterm ME/organophosphate poisoned patient...I have just started taking Oxymatrine(White Tiger Brand)..I have had enterovirus(es)infection going back years(positive in 1988)...I see Dr Chia recommends Rifampin along with Equilibrant to treat his patients.How much Rifampin per day does he recommend?Is it safe to take it for a long(short?)period of time?

 

[CBS]

Hi All,
I have enjoyed reading all the threads here...very informative...I'm a longterm ME/organophosphate poisoned patient...I have just started taking Oxymatrine(White Tiger Brand)..I have had enterovirus(es)infection going back years(positive in 1988)...I see Dr Chia recommends Rifampin along with Equilibrant to treat his patients.How much Rifampin per day does he recommend?Is it safe to take it for a long(short?)period of time?

Hi Abha,

I don't know if it is entirely accurate to say that Dr. Chia "recommends" Rifampin at this point in time. I just saw him a couple weeks ago and he wants me to start on Oxymatrine. He did present on Rifampin at the Ottawa conference and I think you'll find the abstract of his presentation (Rifampin Augments the Effects of Oxymatrine/Equilibrant (oxm/equi) In Patients with Myalgic
Encephalomyelitis/CFS) interesting. It's on page 22 of the abstracts which are linked to here: http://phoenixrising.me/forums/showthread.php?14227-IACFS-ME-Ottawa-abstracts

He concludes:

Conclusion: Flu-like symptoms were commonly observed in patients who took oxm/equi concomitantly with rifampin, as compared to controls. Subsequent symptomatic improvement was observed in > 60% of oxm/equi responders. Short course of rifampin may be beneficial in ME/CFS patients who are responding to oxm/equi. The possible mechanism of enhanced immune response will be discussed and further investigated.

Apparently in the group he tested, some had a flu like response to Rifampin and those that had such a response were most likely to show improvement above and beyond the improvement they had experienced on Oxymatrine alone (23/33).

@ globalpilot: Dr. Chia shared the same info with me on treatments in development.

 

[Abha]

Thanks CBS for correcting my statement and for the links.I also take milk thistle daily.I found this on the web"Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh have suspected that milk thistle can slow down or reduce the activity of enzymes in the liver. What does this have to do with HIV? you might ask. Well, enzymes in the liver break down many of the substances that we eat and drink, including medications. If the activity of these enzymes are reduced, then drugs remain in the blood longer than they otherwise might. This could lead to having higher-than-expected levels of drugs in the body, causing side effects or intensifying already-existing side effects. Indeed, in recent experiments using milk thistle and human liver cells, the researchers found that relatively small concentrations of milk thistle did significantly slow down the activity of the liver enzyme CYP3A4 by 50% to 100%."In light of this, I wonder if I should continue taking Milk Thistle while taking Oxymatrine or stop it for now.I also have Gilbert's syndrome.

 

[baccarat]

I still don't get it!

Dr Chia believes that CFS is caused by an enterovirus. He treated people with Oxymatrine, a supplement that he makes and is a mix of antiviral herbs, as I understand it.
Previous posts say that he has recently introduced the antibiotic Rifampin as part of his protocol.

My questions are:

1. Why does he treat patients with an antibiotic if the cause of the illness is viral?
2. I presume that he resorted to Rifampin because he was not happy with the results of Oxymatrine alone?
3. Why not treat people with an antiviral in addition to Oxymatrin, rather than an antibiotic?

Can somebody pls help me understand. Am I missing something? I can't get my head round.
Also I couldn't find the link to the document of his research paper. Can somebody pls post the whole document rather than extracts.
I'm quite interested in the work of this doctor.
Thanks.

 

[Andrew]

Sometimes medications are used in an off-label way and we are not sure why they work. So all we can do is guess. My guess would be there is either an opportunistic infection there already, or the modulation of the immune system accomplished by Oxymatrin is opening the door to bacteria, or the Rifampin has paliative or anti-viral properties we don't now about.

 

[globalpilot]

Hi,
I had a talk with Dr Chia a week ago and I have some insights into your questions:

a. He thinks the small bowel overgrwoth that is often seen in CFS/ME is caused by the virus affecting the muscles. He says it lives in the smooth muscle in the small intestines (as well as in other parts of the body but when it is in the small bowel it is in the muscle). He also said he thinks this overgrowth produces nagalase which affects the immune system. So, it makes sense to address the overgrowth at the same time as addressing the virus.

b.he says 52% of patients have success with oxymatrine. He didn't say how much success. He says oxymatrine is a Th2 to Th1 shifter. So it will help that aspect of the immune system but there may be other things going on in the patient affecting viral persistance and poor immune response (oxidative stress, elevated nagalase, low glutathione come to mind)

c. there just aren't any antivirals for enteroviruses unfortunately

Which paper ?

GP

I still don't get it!

Dr Chia believes that CFS is caused by an enterovirus. He treated people with Oxymatrine, a supplement that he makes and is a mix of antiviral herbs, as I understand it.
Previous posts say that he has recently introduced the antibiotic Rifampin as part of his protocol.

My questions are:

1. Why does he treat patients with an antibiotic if the cause of the illness is viral?
2. I presume that he resorted to Rifampin because he was not happy with the results of Oxymatrine alone?
3. Why not treat people with an antiviral in addition to Oxymatrin, rather than an antibiotic?

Can somebody pls help me understand. Am I missing something? I can't get my head round.
Also I couldn't find the link to the document of his research paper. Can somebody pls post the whole document rather than extracts.
I'm quite interested in the work of this doctor.
Thanks.

 

[end]

Thanks GP very informative...

Any updates on treatment progress people?

Hi,
I had a talk with Dr Chia a week ago and I have some insights into your questions:

a. He thinks the small bowel overgrwoth that is often seen in CFS/ME is caused by the virus affecting the muscles. He says it lives in the smooth muscle in the small intestines (as well as in other parts of the body but when it is in the small bowel it is in the muscle). He also said he thinks this overgrowth produces nagalase which affects the immune system. So, it makes sense to address the overgrowth at the same time as addressing the virus.

b.he says 52% of patients have success with oxymatrine. He didn't say how much success. He says oxymatrine is a Th2 to Th1 shifter. So it will help that aspect of the immune system but there may be other things going on in the patient affecting viral persistance and poor immune response (oxidative stress, elevated nagalase, low glutathione come to mind)

c. there just aren't any antivirals for enteroviruses unfortunately

Which paper ?

GP