Dr. Chia Produces New Form of Oxymatrine

[Kati]

It's Equilibrant from Dr Chia. Equilibranthealth.com I believe.

 

[leaves]

Aaah that explains ... those are 100 mg a tab I believe. I didnt take those cause im not tolerant of the other ingredients.

 

[Kati]

Per 6 tablets serving size, Equilibrant has 1500 mg of proprietary herbal blend. Consisting of Astragalus Root extract, Shrubby sophora root extracts, olive leaf extract, licorice root extract and shittake mushroom extract. Also included is Vitamin A. D Calcium and Selenium.

 

[leaves]

ooh so it doesnt really say how much sophora root is in there. hmmm. I guess I will up the dose to 3 tabs or so.

 

[Kati]

There is a big lack of regulation in vitamins and supplements in the world. I am wary of other companies that want to copy a compound- you never know what and how much they put in their pills. That's why I stucked to Equilibrant.

 

[consuegra]

Dr. Chia recommends building to six pills of Equilabrant per day. My daughter built slowly to this level without a problem. She has been on Equilibrant for four months or so. Over this time some symptoms have improved, but as usual it is difficult to tell what, in anything, might cause improvement. I believe over time the antibody levels might drop in a significant way but it takes a long time according to Dr. Chia.

Chris

http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com

 

[leaves]

about enteroviruses; nitazoxanide also has an anti viral effect was recently discovered, also against enteroviruses. Reason i mention that, i had to take it for a while for something else, and felt very good... they now also use it as a treatment against hep c and it is is a pretty safe medicine. i am considering asking my doc for a trial..

 

[Andrew]

I bought a bottle of Oxymatrine and then figured I should search for a thread and read it before taking the stuff. Very interesting. I'm wondering if any of you have found significant improvement since you began this. For example, if you were already improving slightly before trying this, did you notice a significant change beyond this at some point.

BTW, you might find this interesting:

John Chia MD ( Torrance, California) has long maintained that he and his son contracted ME/CFS from an enterovirus infection. Enteroviruses (which include the coxsackie and polio viruses) usually cause flu-like symptoms in the Summer months (atypical for influenza, which occurs in the late Fall and Winter). At the last conference in 2009 Chia reported success treating himself, his son, as well as numerous patients who had stomach biopsies positive for enteroviral protein VP1. Treated subjects were given up to 600mg per day of oxymatrine for 3 to 6 months. 52% of the treated subjects improved on a 7-point scale (much better to unchanged to much worse), while only 6% of controls improved. In this years account, Chia reports an enhanced response when the antibiotic rifampin (300mg twice daily for 7 days) is given concurrently with oxymatrine. Of 48 subjects treated, 32 (67%) responded to such therapy. Two-thirds had a febrile response and transient worsening of symptoms, however, when rifampin was added. Oxymatrine (with or without rifampin) appears to be an effective therapy in a subset of PWCs with evidence of enteroviral infection in the gut.

[Ed. note: Oxymatrine is a traditional herbal Chinese medication used for the treatment of viral hepatitis, viral myocarditis, some skin disorders, and even cancer. It is thought to inhibit the pro-inflammatory cytokines TNF-alpha and IL6. It may also inhibit Substance P (a neurotransmitter partly responsible for fibropain) and antagonizes opioid receptors. Chia currently uses the Equilibrant brand, starting at 1 pill twice daily, then 2 twice daily, then 3 twice daily (available from equilibranthealth.com). The maintenance dose is 1 pill twice daily. Adverse effects include hyperkalemia or hypertension in 1% of cases, and 10% of subjects discontinued the herb due to intolerable side effects. Chia follows patient response by measuring coxsackie B3 antibody titers, TNF?, and the IL12/IL10 ratio.]

Source: http://drlapp.com/news/iacfs-2011-summary/

 

[CBS]

Enteroviruses (which include the coxsackie and polio viruses) usually cause flu-like symptoms in the Summer months (atypical for influenza, which occurs in the late Fall and Winter).

So has anyone documented/studied the time of year that patients with a sudden onset of ME first got sick?

ETA: I just created a poll asking "In which month did month sudden onset folks first become ill?"

 

[Andrew]

I just thought of something. This Equilabrant contains licorice root. Licorice is one of the natural remedies that has to be taken carefully. So that's another reason to be careful with dosing.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Andrew--

Licorice is known for it's anti-viral properties and its use as an adaptogen to regulate the HPA axis. TCM practitioners will also often add it to their formulas to help harmonize the other herbs in the mix. The only serious side effect of licorice is that it can increase b.p., so it is contraindicated for those with hypertension.

In general, I have not found pre-packaged formulas to be the best option when it comes to taking herbs. I always prefer to take Chinese herbs that are formulated specifically for me by a knowledgeable TCM practitioner, and adjusted accordingly with each visit. Every body is different, so there can be no way that one formula will be effective for every person who tries it. And in time, herbs that were once very effective may become less effective, especially if they are taken repeatedly for an extended period of time.

Given that, I am still glad to know that Chia is making herbal remedies available to his patients. It's good to know there are alternatives to the a.v. drugs.

 

[Andrew]

There are other possible negative side effects. There are several information pages, but here's one: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/881.html

Of course, the amount in this formulation might be so low there is not a problem. But I think it's better for people to know about side effects so they can decide.

 

[Andrew]

With the use of other potent Chinese herbs and oxymatrine over the last several years, we have seen two patients develop rheumatoid arthritis (presented at the Reno meeting and London IiME, London meeting)

This is sort of scary. I searched for his presentation using Google and got nowhere.

 

[baccarat]

The interesting bit for me is that Dr Chia found a better response in patients given the antibiotic Rifampin, in addition to the herbs.
I don't understand why an antibiotic would help in fighting an enterovirus infection...
The other main question is how people do once they stop taking the herbs. I tried herbs in the past, some were quite helpful in getting symptoms down but as long as I took them. Whenever I stopped then I'd slip back to square one.
It would be helpful to hear from anybody who has had this treatment for a while and then went off it.

 

[CBS]

The interesting bit for me is that Dr Chia found a better response in patients given the antibiotic Rifampin, in addition to the herbs.
I don't understand why an antibiotic would help in fighting an enterovirus infection...
....

Perhaps Rifampin is actually working against a chronic C. Pneumoniae infection (not uncommon in ME(CFS) patients): http://chronicfatigue.stanford.edu/infections/chlamydia-treatment.html

Rifampin was the most effective antibiotic overall, killed in a dose dependent matter, and exhibited moderate synergism with erythromycin. These considerations provide important information on chlamydial biology and antimicrobial susceptibility. A combinational therapy of rifampin and a macrolide should be considered in therapy-refractory infections."

Just a thought.

 

[shannah]

Perhaps Rifampin is actually working against a chronic C. Pneumoniae infection (not uncommon in ME(CFS) patients): http://chronicfatigue.stanford.edu/infections/chlamydia-treatment.html
Just a thought.

I found Dr. Chia's remark that there was improved response when Rifampin was added very interesting as well.

Many Chronic Lyme patients have major turnarounds in their health when Rifampin is introduced. The connection that they make is that there must be the co-infection Bartonella present.

As we know there are many symptom similarities between Chronic Lyme/Co-infections and ME/CFS and many misdiagnosis also between the two. Many even believe they are the same. The Rifampin could possibly be treating a common denominator in both.

All very intriguing!

 

[shannah]

Here's a short write up on Rifampin from one site

Description: A semisynthetic antibiotic produced from Streptomyces mediterranei. It has a broad antibacterial spectrum, including activity against several forms of Mycobacterium. In susceptible organisms it inhibits DNA-dependent RNA polymerase activity by forming a stable complex with the enzyme. It thus suppresses the initiation of RNA synthesis. It is bactericidal and acts on both intracellular and extracellular organisms. It has also been shown to induce cytochrome P450 CYP3A4.

http://www.biotrend-usa.com/us/shop/search-query?itemid=BG0307

 

[Zuriel]

Anyone knows the cost of test for enterovirus and the procedure? I was directed to www.evmedresearch.com but could not find out how the procedure is carried out?
Dr in Australia shook his head and laughed when I mentioned the possibility of enterovirus making my gut feel so awful.

 

[CBS]

Anyone knows the cost of test for enterovirus and the procedure? I was directed to www.evmedresearch.com but could not find out how the procedure is carried out?

When I last looked, IHC analysis of the the stomach biopsy tissue through Dr. Chia (EV Med - http://chronicfatigue.stanford.edu/infections/entero-tests.html) was $250-300. The biopsy itself is separate and done via upper GI endoscopy. It can be done by your own gastroenterologist (can be expensive in USA). Don't be dismayed if the initial local analysis comes back as completely normal. Few labs test for enteroviruses and fewer still use a sensitive enough test (ARUP Labs). Antibody tests for enteroviruses really need to be done through ARUP labs in SLC, UT USA.

http://chronicfatigue.stanford.edu/infections/entero-experts.html

Coxsackievirus B antibody and Echovirus antibody by neutralization method can be done at ARUP laboratory, Salt lake City, Utah. Echovirus test #0060053. Coxsackie B test # 0060055 (a combined coxsackie, echo and polio virus test through ARUP this past September was $755. BEFORE insurance).
Stomach biopsy (antrum, 3 pieces) for enterovirus staining at EV Med Research, 25332 Narbonne Avenue. #170. Lomita, CA 90717. Tel (310) 534-9700,
Fax (310) 534-9701

Dr in Australia shook his head and laughed when I mentioned the possibility of enterovirus making my gut feel so awful.

Silly Aussie Doc! Someday he'll know better. Tell him you just need to put this to rest and that if the testing is negative you'll drop the topic entirely (then don't cut any corners on getting the right tests).

Good Luck!

 

[Zuriel]

CBS- G'day! Many thanks for the information and support after hitting many brick walls. Cheers.