Curcumin, caryophyllene, and the cannabinoid connection

CSMLSM

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I think whats meant here is 1) eating a cannabis product goes thru the stomach, thru the digestive system and into the liver and circulation.

Smoking it, or sublingually, is going directly into the blood stream and circulation but of course eventually its in the liver too.

Is it similar to the thing about sucrose versus fructose?
Blood that circulates from the lungs goes directly to the brain.

Your brain really needs oxygen so rather than take the long route to the brain in goes straight there. It is this fact we are utilising to get this molecule to the site of importance intact and still functional in the way intended, a selective CB2 agonist.

The metabolites of this molecule after passing through the liver do not have any binding ability to the CB2 receptor.

The Oral mucosa is similar in that the blood that circulates from it leads to the brain before the liver and thus we have another route to administer our molecule.

Daniel
 

Johannes

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"LDN helped me, didn't help some others. "

Like so many other "cures". According to a finnish doctor (his introspective study) it helped appr. 70% of his patients atleast somehow.

" I"ve been surprised- that few people seem to discuss how it specifically helps them."

Maybe, because it doesn't help. I don't know, but I have read many many comments all over internet and haven't found anything convincing, except concerning mood, pain and deppression.

I am thinking the same about Copaiba oil but I will try it. Writings from non-professionals keeps me on my toes. I have some backround from biotechnology, chemistry and physichal chemistry from university so I do know something. My brain just isn't working this time of year. On July, August and September the situation is different. I used to be a fairly smart cookie back at the time.

My quess is that Copaiba may work for some people. But for many more it doesn't. For how many...nobody knows.

"Now I understand some peoples bodies are even more picky and sensitive than mine, and I'm sorry it must be so hard when so many things make you immediately sick like that."

I am glad your body isn't as picky as mine. My situaton is not easy. But when one has to live with it for a longer time, it becomes a new normal, as you know, I think. It feels bad but not the end of the world.
 

Johannes

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"If you have ever seen the film Awakenings.
Fiction-"

I have. Liked it.


"CBD ect will end like that."

OK.

"In time I will present evidence as others start to take notice of my information and I and more recovered as my recovery is continuing still and amazing me as it happens."

I hope it does. Looking forward hearing about it. In the mean while I am ordering some to test by my self. You said you dilute 40% terpene to 1/16 but could you please tell me how many drops per day you take?
 
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"Maybe, because it doesn't help. I don't know, but I have read many many comments all over internet and haven't found anything convincing, except concerning mood, pain and deppression".

I use cannabis products for my swollen eyes. The eye doctor offered me nothing, nothing at all.

It beats being blindfolded.
 

CSMLSM

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Yeah that was my point, the discussion was on cumin and then they posted links to CB receptors being affected by curcumin and nobody seemed to notice..
I do apologise, I had made the assumption that they meant curcumin (common mistake people make) and I posted something I thought was relevant and I got asked questions. I am new to forums but am learning. I will post things like this in my own threads now to avoid this happening.

I was just trying to share knowledge.

Sorry GlassCannonLife

Daniel
 

CSMLSM

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Hi the essential oil is 43.47% Caryophyllene of this I use 1 part this to 15 parts fractionated coconut oil, example 1ml added to 15ml of coconut oil.

I suggest using the 1/16 ratio to others as they will generally be starting this more ill than I was so maybe sensitive to my used ratio. Being on the safe side.

Be aware that you may well have reactions in the respect of latent infections that will start to be addressed and this may cause the discomfort that comes with that. This will be your body correcting the dysfunctional state your body is in. Spots appearing as you body deals with skin microbes long forgotten is a most likely thing if you have been bedbound much and struggle with daily care.

As for how much, my experience using my ratio was about 1/3 to 1/2 of the dropper from a 10ml bottle with dropper lid. I was vaporising at first very often, now I use the sublingual I do it every 2-4 hours based on feel.
I learnt when to take it because I will start to have symptoms again and take more Then as time goes on I learn how to predict.
For example when we do activity we get PEM so what you would do is take some before activity and then after, as time goes on you learn how to apply it if you know what I mean.

I hope I have answered your questions, please do not hesitate to ask more. However could you do it on my personal threads so to keep other peoples threads from being disrupted. Thanks

Daniel
 

Johannes

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Are you saying that you achieved major improvements from caryophyllene applied sublingually? How are you obtaining caryophyllene, from an essential oil, or from pure caryophyllene?

I notice you can buy caryophyllene oil at a number of places: here, here, here, here and here.
Terpenes UK seem to be a good option:

https://www.terpenes-uk.co.uk/product-page/beta-caryophyllene

Terpene content is 80% minimum and verified by Merck, the quality company. In my home country the only seller is doTerra and 10ml costs 45 euros. Terpenes UK is much cheaper: 10ml 10 pounds + freight and the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. And it becomes even more cheaper if you dilute it first to 40% and then to 1/16. That would be diluted altogether to 1/32.
 

CSMLSM

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Terpenes UK seem to be a good option:

https://www.terpenes-uk.co.uk/product-page/beta-caryophyllene

Terpene content is 80% minimum and verified by Merck, the quality company. In my home country the only seller is doTerra and 10ml costs 45 euros. Terpenes UK is much cheaper: 10ml 10 pounds + freight and the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. And it becomes even more cheaper if you dilute it first to 40% and then to 1/16. That would be diluted altogether to 1/32.
I bought 100ml for about £45 waiting for 300ml aluminium bottle that cost £110 Greenwood Essential, India
 

Johannes

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I was in contact to terpenes UK and they said deliver abroad. I will make my order today. Delivery time is 5 to 10 days.
 
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Johannes

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Hi the essential oil is 43.47% Caryophyllene of this I use 1 part this to 15 parts fractionated coconut oil, example 1ml added to 15ml of coconut oil.

I suggest using the 1/16 ratio to others as they will generally be starting this more ill than I was so maybe sensitive to my used ratio. Being on the safe side.

Be aware that you may well have reactions in the respect of latent infections that will start to be addressed and this may cause the discomfort that comes with that. This will be your body correcting the dysfunctional state your body is in. Spots appearing as you body deals with skin microbes long forgotten is a most likely thing if you have been bedbound much and struggle with daily care.

As for how much, my experience using my ratio was about 1/3 to 1/2 of the dropper from a 10ml bottle with dropper lid. I was vaporising at first very often, now I use the sublingual I do it every 2-4 hours based on feel.
I learnt when to take it because I will start to have symptoms again and take more Then as time goes on I learn how to predict.
For example when we do activity we get PEM so what you would do is take some before activity and then after, as time goes on you learn how to apply it if you know what I mean.

I hope I have answered your questions, please do not hesitate to ask more. However could you do it on my personal threads so to keep other peoples threads from being disrupted. Thanks

Daniel
Ok. Thank you Daniel. Since the product I will order contains minimum 80% terpenes, I am going to dilute it 1ml to 29ml. I will first try one drop after each meal so that what ever part of the oil eventually goes to stomach, it would irritate the mucous membranes of my stomach as little as possible. I can not tolerate coconut oil, so I use rapeseed oil instead. And what I have read from studies of CBD oil, it helps to heal bowel wounds, which I know I have, so it would be good to get some of the terpenes to go to bowel. It should go there in the blood flow but maybe a direct contact would help better. Would propably mean increasing the dosage at some point.

So lets see if I get symptoms because of my chemical sensitivity. I don't hold my breath, because the more the food has aroma, the more it causes me problems.

I presume the product should be protected from light, righ?

I once had to use cortison pills for my bowel inflammation. Cortison healed wounds in my bowel and helped with inflammation in small dosage but when dosage was higher, cortison caused inflammation. Funny thing. I hope this doesn't happen with copaiba oil too.
 
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CSMLSM

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Ok. Thank you Daniel. Since the product I will order contains minimum 80% terpenes, I am going to dilute it 1ml to 29ml. I will first try one drop after each meal so that what ever part of the oil eventually goes to stomach, it would irritate the mucous membranes of my stomach as little as possible. I can not tolerate coconut oil, so I use rapeseed oil instead. And what I have read from studies of CBD oil, it helps to heal bowel wounds, which I know I have, so it would be good to get some of the terpenes to go to bowel. It should go there in the blood flow but maybe a direct contact would help better. Would propably mean increasing the dosage at some point.

So lets see if I get symptoms because of my chemical sensitivity. I don't hold my breath, because the more the food has aroma, the more it causes me problems. I presume the product should be protected from light, righ?

I once had to use cortison pills for my bowel inflammation. Cortison healed wounds in my bowel and helped with inflammation in small dosage but when dosage was higher, cortison caused inflammation. Funny thing. I hope this doesn't happen with copaiba oil too.
Everything you say sounds great and on point.

You will be extremely surprised at this stuff, its not very strong at all. Food additive/flavouring FDA and EU Food Agency approved as safe. Barely can smell it or taste it.

I will share an experience with you.
Please do not do this. Not a suggestion it was self experimentation in a moment of mild panic and to try to redeem the situation.

I was making some of the mixture and happened to spill a ml or so. With all the thoughts of waste and what I have explained about its safety I decided to wipe it up from where it was and rub it all around my mouth mucosa until there was no waste left.

I had no problems with anything and it certainly was affective shall I say.

One other thing though quickly, your mix sounds very close to mine so if you have issues (unlikely I think) you may consider adding just 2-5ml more of which ever oil is suitable for subligual you can tolerate, I would suggest.

Oh and yes light/heat is detrimental to these types of substances as they are highly volatile and can oxidise very readily.

Dark, cool place and air tight container for maximun protection I believe. Should be three years life span expected as mine is but yours could be longer as I have other molecules in my oil (natural product), unlike your pure terpene likely synthesised in a lab. Not an issue and maybe infact better for your liver enzymes balance.

Daniel
 

CSMLSM

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What I spilled was pure oil not a mixture sorry.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

Johannes

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Everything you say sounds great and on point.

You will be extremely surprised at this stuff, its not very strong at all. Food additive/flavouring FDA and EU Food Agency approved as safe. Barely can smell it or taste it.

I will share an experience with you.
Please do not do this. Not a suggestion it was self experimentation in a moment of mild panic and to try to redeem the situation.

I was making some of the mixture and happened to spill a ml or so. With all the thoughts of waste and what I have explained about its safety I decided to wipe it up from where it was and rub it all around my mouth mucosa until there was no waste left.

I had no problems with anything and it certainly was affective shall I say.

One other thing though quickly, your mix sounds very close to mine so if you have issues (unlikely I think) you may consider adding just 2-5ml more of which ever oil is suitable for subligual you can tolerate, I would suggest.

Oh and yes light/heat is detrimental to these types of substances as they are highly volatile and can oxidise very readily.

Dark, cool place and air tight container for maximun protection I believe. Should be three years life span expected as mine is but yours could be longer as I have other molecules in my oil (natural product), unlike your pure terpene likely synthesised in a lab. Not an issue and maybe infact better for your liver enzymes balance.

Daniel
According to safety data sheet it is natural. According to analysis certificate one tested batch has had 91% terpenes. But as it is an isolate, it is not that natural. Hexane and ethyl acetate is used to separate for example caryophyllene oxide, copalic acid and acetoxycopalic acid from the oil. What's left is mostly caryophyllene plus some other natural substances. There are for sure tiny residues of hexane and ethyl acetate in the isolate, which may cause problems to me. But if that is the case, I have to try more natural copaiba oil. However, isolate may have its benefits as it is more free from potential bowel irritating chemicals. But who knows, those removed chemicals could also have benefits, which are then lost in the process.
 

CSMLSM

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According to safety data sheet it is natural. According to analysis certificate one tested batch has had 91% terpenes. But as it is an isolate, it is not that natural. Hexane and ethyl acetate is used to separate for example caryophyllene oxide, copalic acid and acetoxycopalic acid from the oil. What's left is mostly caryophyllene plus some other natural substances. There are for sure tiny residues of hexane and ethyl acetate in the isolate, which may cause problems to me. But if that is the case, I have to try more natural copaiba oil. However, isolate may have its benefits as it is more free from potential bowel irritating chemicals. But who knows, those removed chemicals could also have benefits, which are then lost in the process.
Have you ever heard of the-

From Wiki,
Entourage effect
The entourage effect is a proposed mechanism by which cannabis compounds other than tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) act synergistically with it to modulate the overall psychoactive effects of the plant.[1][2]


Terpenes[edit]
There are numerous terpenes present in the cannabis plant and variation between strains. Some of the different terpenes have known pharmacological effects and have been studied.[8][9][2]
One hypothesis is that myrcene is a prominent sedative terpenoid in cannabis, and combined with THC, may produce the ‘couch-lock’ phenomenon.[2]

Background[edit]
The phrase entourage effect was introduced in 1999.[10][11] While originally identified as a novel method of endocannabinoid regulation by which multiple endogenous chemical species display a cooperative effect in eliciting a cellular response, the term has evolved to describe the polypharmacy effects of combined cannabis phytochemicals or whole plant extracts.[12] The phrase now commonly refers to the compounds present in cannabis supposedly working in concert to create “the sum of all the parts that leads to the magic or power of cannabis”.[8] Other cannabinoids, terpenoids, and flavonoids may be part of an entourage effect.[11]

This next part I know is nonsense by my own decades long experience. Thought I should add this to be balanced but it is nonsense and incorrect ignorance, like most opinions of cannabis related stuff-

Criticism[edit]
A 2020 review of research found no entourage effect in most studies, while other reports claimed mixed results, including the possibility of increased adverse effects.[4] The review concluded that the term, "entourage effect", is unfounded and used mainly for marketing.[4]

If I am sharing too much just let me know, dont suffer in silence :)

Daniel
 

bread.

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MODERATOR NOTE: THE FIRST 30 POSTS IN THIS THREAD HAVE BEEN MOVED FROM 'My fatigue is gone. My poisoned feeling, gone. PEM, what PEM?'


Hi this should make things clearer

The cannabinoid connection
In a 2019 meta-analysis with 531 patients diagnosed with major depressive disorder, curcumin showed a statistically significant decrease in depressive and anxiety symptoms. Researchers concluded that the tolerability and impressive results call for more studies to evaluate whether curcumin could be a validated addition to the standard of care in this patient population.
Like other spices such as black pepper, cinnamon, and cloves, curcumin is rich in terpene, B-caryophyllene. Terpenes are compounds that provide plants their aroma, like fresh pine from pinene, tropical mango from myrcene, or soothing lavender from linalool, as well as a distinct set of therapeutic benefits. These compounds are known to interact with the endocannabinoid system like their cannabinoid counterparts. In particular, B-caryophyllene selectively binds to cannabinoid receptor type 2 (CB2), associated with immunity, demonstrating the potential role of curcumin in our protective shield against pathogens causing allergic rhinitis.
Studies reveal that even if you consume a reasonably high dose of curcumin, it has very low bioavailability. This poor absorption indicates this in the small intestine and its rapid metabolization in the liver. Research is inconclusive whether curcumin could work in synergy with other B-caryophyllene, which contains compounds like black pepper. Certain media outlets and supplement companies boast the improved absorption of curcumin, but more clinical studies are needed to determine the relationship between the two. Researchers on the quest to discover how to improve curcumin's dismal bioavailability are looking at how it has been used in Ayurveda, emphasizing the entire plant rather than just one component.

I use caryophyllene (formerly known as Beta-caryophyllene) to treat my ME/CFS and I am almost completely normal now.
You have to bypass the liver so vaporisation I used at first. I now use more effective and practical subligual drops.
Please ask questions

How severe were you pre miracle drug, how severe are you know?
 

Johannes

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How severe were you pre miracle drug, how severe are you know?
Good question. If you want, you could use Phoenixrising scale:

Please enter your current activity level: 0— VERY SEVERE: Bedridden constantly, except to go to bathroom. 1— SEVERE: Bedridden most of day, very rarely leave house. 2— SEVERE: Leave house once a week, concentrate one hour a day. 3— MODERATE: Leave house several times a week, two hours work/activity at home a day. 4— MODERATE: Three to four hours of work/activity a day. 5— MODERATE: Four to five hours of work/activity a day. 6— MILD: Six to seven hours activity a day, able to do a part-time job. 7— MILD: Able to do a full-time job but with difficulty. 8— MILD: Near-normal life activity level, but still symptomatic. 9— RECOVERY: Normal life activity level, mild symptoms. 10— RECOVERY: Fully recovered, or in full remission.

I am now 2 to 3. And in July, August and part of September 5.
 

CSMLSM

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How severe were you pre miracle drug, how severe are you know?
Good question. If you want, you could use Phoenixrising scale:

Please enter your current activity level: 0— VERY SEVERE: Bedridden constantly, except to go to bathroom. 1— SEVERE: Bedridden most of day, very rarely leave house. 2— SEVERE: Leave house once a week, concentrate one hour a day. 3— MODERATE: Leave house several times a week, two hours work/activity at home a day. 4— MODERATE: Three to four hours of work/activity a day. 5— MODERATE: Four to five hours of work/activity a day. 6— MILD: Six to seven hours activity a day, able to do a part-time job. 7— MILD: Able to do a full-time job but with difficulty. 8— MILD: Near-normal life activity level, but still symptomatic. 9— RECOVERY: Normal life activity level, mild symptoms. 10— RECOVERY: Fully recovered, or in full remission.

I am now 2 to 3. And in July, August and part of September 5.
Here is something just posted to someone elsewhere-

Dude I am fine now seriously just gotta rebuild the body now. I have been in recovery for approx 20 months.
Major life changing stuff on 9th Feb 2022. I am covering it all in a few threads.

I am just about to post a thread with a link to an amazing video about Caryophyllene which is what I use essentially.

It has all the information you could ever want, its amazing and I recommend everyone watch it. It is a presentation of the science and potential. Its all you need to watch, its amazing. It got posted yesterday on youtube.

When I have a space I will take a look at your website and let you know, unless I forget, getting less likely now:)

Rest well

Daniel

You can also check out my Introduction thread for most of that info and I will be collating goups of info over coming days.
Its all already available if you look. Its going to be redundant if I keep repeating myself like spam all over the forum. If you understand what I mean.
 
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Just thought I'd share, one of my doctors recommended that I tried copaiba oil in Dec 2019.

I've used it on and off since then, tried transdermal and sublingual and have noticed zero effect from it unfortunately..

I just rub the pure oil on part of my leg or do a few drops under my tongue but yeah never noticed it did anything. I don't think it's a supplier issue as the oil is from a reputed essential oil and cosmetic ingredient supplier local to me. I could try a different brand perhaps but yeah, has not been a miracle cure for me so far.
 

Johannes

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Just thought I'd share, one of my doctors recommended that I tried copaiba oil in Dec 2019.

I've used it on and off since then, tried transdermal and sublingual and have noticed zero effect from it unfortunately..

I just rub the pure oil on part of my leg or do a few drops under my tongue but yeah never noticed it did anything. I don't think it's a supplier issue as the oil is from a reputed essential oil and cosmetic ingredient supplier local to me. I could try a different brand perhaps but yeah, has not been a miracle cure for me so far.
Have you tried CBD oil? Any effects? Or LDN? Did LDN have any effects? LDN seems to have helped some 70% of CFS patients according a retrospective study. It has effects partly similar to that of beta-caryophyllene in cell membrane. There is natural copaiba oil and refined (isolate). Which one you used? They are not the same.