Could and upset liver be a clue to Me/cfs?

Booble

Senior Member
Messages
1,359
Likes
2,736
Thats what he says about the liver and how he treats it.

https://www.medicalmedium.com/blog/epidemic-of-sluggish-liver

I think one can imply elements from different protocols ...,yes it takes time to read and figuring things out what works for oneself .

And keep in mind there are ppl who healed from ME who did not do any kind of protocol,detox

Since age 4?

"Anthony was born with the unique ability to converse with the Spirit of Compassion, who provides him with extraordinarily advanced healing medical information that’s far ahead of its time.
Since age four, Anthony has been using his gift to see into people’s conditions and tell them and their doctors how to recover their health."
 

Richard7

Senior Member
Messages
772
Likes
1,411
Location
Australia
So you think that would be a better idea, to take more bile until I get bile diarrhea and then essentially my circulating supply of bile would be adequate/back to normal? I'm a little confused.
With the ox bile I was following the advice I was given - to restore the pool of bile then top it up daily to make up for the amount lost in the stool.

But I am not sure what is best. I would like to find something that just switched on my liver and made everything work as normal but do not know what that would be. At the moment I think that some mixture of the two dietary solutions may be best but cannot claim that I noticed any one of the three solutions to be better than the others.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,831
Likes
10,154
Location
australia (brisbane)
With the ox bile I was following the advice I was given - to restore the pool of bile then top it up daily to make up for the amount lost in the stool.

But I am not sure what is best. I would like to find something that just switched on my liver and made everything work as normal but do not know what that would be. At the moment I think that some mixture of the two dietary solutions may be best but cannot claim that I noticed any one of the three solutions to be better than the others.
If I recall correctly, oxbile is same or similar to TUDCA. Tudca is suppose to be very good for the liver and also nac. Choline/Inositol I've heard has helped many people with fatty liver disease.
I've never used tudca but have used nac mostly to protect my liver being on antivirals all the time, so far so good.
I know liver enzymes ast/alt can go up from hard training, maybe easier in cfsme for this to occur from activity that wouldnt normally put these enzymes up. Exercised induced increase in liver enzymes doesn't mean stress on the liver. I think the top of the normal range for ast/alt is 60 but guys who weight train hard can constantly have enzymes readings in the 100-150 range.
 

Irat

Senior Member
Messages
288
Likes
696
Since age 4?

"Anthony was born with the unique ability to converse with the Spirit of Compassion, who provides him with extraordinarily advanced healing medical information that’s far ahead of its time.
Since age four, Anthony has been using his gift to see into people’s conditions and tell them and their doctors how to recover their health."
Thats of course story telling BS,nonetheless still very good informations ,if one wants to do a liver cleanse etc .but as we know what helps one person can hurt another,everyone needs to do their research and decide whats best for them .there are many possibilities out there.
 
Last edited:

Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
523
Likes
558
Cholestasis can be the result of impaired secretion of bile by the liver or obstruction of bile flow through the bile ducts.

If it is due to impaired bile synthesis, bile salt supplementation may help.

If cholestasis is due to bile duct obstruction, this could result in a backup of bile acids into the blood. High levels of bile acids in the blood can be toxic to the liver and other organs.

I think that if you suspect cholestasis, it is important to find out the cause.
 
Messages
445
Likes
1,267
Francisco Westermeier was interviewed by SolveME, when asked if he has any theories about the roots of endothelial dysfunction in mecfs he mentions the liver as a possibility, pointing to some liver-made proteins found to be low in Ron Davis recent study (i think he means bilirubin and albumin) as well as some molecules related to his own research on NO.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,407
Likes
2,064
Yes, because Themos Kalafatis = mariovitali

I really tried to let everyone know that an AI system was available and that it could help speed research efforts considerably , since 2015 (see attached email). I sent emails to every imaginable ME organisation and many ME researchers. Very few have responded. There is no need to say who has and who hasn't responded. The point here is to have this system help connect the dots starting tomorrow.

Credit has to go however to Professor Modra Murovska who has answered to my email and invited me to the UK to have my hypothesis (AI-assisted) presented to members of the EUROMENE.

The AI framework has identified research targets for Ehlers-Danlos, PANDAS and several critical connections between metabolism with the immune system and more.

I will write to Dr Karl Morten. Let's see if he will respond.

DISCLAIMER : The AI methodology used has been patented (USPTO) in 2018.

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20180322958

View attachment 47494
Themos, would you mind listing your findings for this:
"The AI framework has identified research targets for Ehlers-Danlos, PANDAS and several critical connections between metabolism with the immune system and more".

Thank you for bringing your information to this forum. I appreciate it.
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,173
Likes
1,489
Hi @Violeta ,


I am in the process of communicating all of this information to researchers. The information will also include mast cell activation and collagen breakdown apart from the others i mentioned.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,407
Likes
2,064
Hi @Violeta ,


I am in the process of communicating all of this information to researchers. The information will also include mast cell activation and collagen breakdown apart from the others i mentioned.
Thank you, I am looking forward to seeing this information in print.

Your reference to collagen breakdown is very interesting. Do you have a clue for where to look for that?
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,173
Likes
1,489
@Violeta

Here is the thing. The software I created is supposed to be used along with medical experts, not someone like myself. So I am in the process of trying to find experts in connective tissue disorders.

One target is N-Linked glycosylation -as an example- but we need to communicate this to experts and then have them work with the software I built in order to connect the pieces faster and more efficiently. If you know anyone I could talk to , or an organisation then that would be great help.

I hope this makes sense.
 
Messages
16
Likes
29
Hi everyone, I totally agree that liver dysfunction is very involved in CFS. I’m trying to improve mine and have been taking Jarrow’s ox bile 1-2 caps/day for about 3 weeks. I recently noticed myself itching along the sides of my body. I am usually a very “non-inflammatory” person whose skin rarely reacts to anything.
Has anyone else experienced strange itching from ox bile? It worked very well for about 2 weeks, where I had beautiful stool colour, shape, and consistency, and I produced a good amount daily. Unfortunately I’m back to my usual constipation where everything is stuck higher up (barely anything comes out even if I use an enema).
I’m going to stick to the ox bile supplement for now, because it’s the most improvement I’ve seen in a long time. If anyone has any insights, I would love to learn from you!
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,173
Likes
1,489
Hi everyone, I totally agree that liver dysfunction is very involved in CFS. I’m trying to improve mine and have been taking Jarrow’s ox bile 1-2 caps/day for about 3 weeks. I recently noticed myself itching along the sides of my body. I am usually a very “non-inflammatory” person whose skin rarely reacts to anything.
Has anyone else experienced strange itching from ox bile? It worked very well for about 2 weeks, where I had beautiful stool colour, shape, and consistency, and I produced a good amount daily. Unfortunately I’m back to my usual constipation where everything is stuck higher up (barely anything comes out even if I use an enema).
I’m going to stick to the ox bile supplement for now, because it’s the most improvement I’ve seen in a long time. If anyone has any insights, I would love to learn from you!
I would advise to NOT supply with Ox bile as you are adding more bile acids to your body. Have you removed your gallbladder? Make sure that you check with your doctor , this itching may result from too many bile acids in your body.
 
Messages
16
Likes
29
I would advise to NOT supply with Ox bile as you are adding more bile acids to your body. Have you removed your gallbladder? Make sure that you check with your doctor , this itching may result from too many bile acids in your body.
Thanks mariovitali. I still have my gallbladder. My doctor is on vacation at the moment, but she's very unhelpful and denies that I have any issues outside of depression. (She thinks the reason I'm unwell is because I don't exercise or eat fibre, and refuse to take iron pills). I have stopped the bile acids for now and the itching seems to be subsiding.
 
Messages
445
Likes
1,267
The liver is our chemistry with more than 200 functions,if the liver is impaired it becomes for example a source of nitrite oxide and drives inflammation,or when there is too much adrenaline the liver can t keep up with .and adrenaline becomes very toxic ...and so on.the liver also communicates with our brain .so a healthy liver is crucial ,but so is a healthy brain,..

..we can t separate the body from the brain ,all works to together in a feedback loop.....

.but for me the liver is not the root cause,but the brain,and the downstream effect is an up or downregulation in our systems ,(like the endocrine and immunesystem,) which adapts and thisi has become our new homeostasis.
My liver must look like a crime scene then. My body has produced adrenaline almost non stop since forever because of my sensory processing disorder thats causing me some weird isssues. Recently its calmed down though with ssri and beta blockers. But this could be another hint that the liver is involved in mecfs.

Prusty just tweeted about some genes that stood out in severe patients, ppl might want to check it out.
 
Messages
11,521
Likes
27,565
My liver must look like a crime scene then
Oh, yeah probably, as is mine.

chinese traditional views the liver as an organ involved in emotions and stress. Below are some random Google summaries.

According to Traditional Chinese Medicine, the Liver is the organ responsible for the smooth flow of emotions as well as Qi and blood. It is the organ that is most affected by excess stress or emotions. The Liver's partner organ is the Gallbladder.

The liver produces a large amount of lymph, which is estimated to be 25 to 50% of the lymph flowing through the thoracic duct. 10 Similar to those in other organs, lymphatic vessels in the liver function to retain fluid and regulate the immune system.

Liver
Digestion and the processing of nutrients are primary functions of this vital organ.5 In TCM, the liver is associated with anger, depression, and the below physical symptoms:


  • Emotions: Anger, resentment, frustration, irritability, bitterness, and "flying off the handle"
  • Liver function: Involved in the smooth flow of energy and blood throughout the body; regulates bile secretion and stores blood; is connected with the tendons, nails, and eyes
  • Symptoms of liver imbalance: Breast distension, menstrual pain, headache, irritability, inappropriate anger, dizziness, dry, red eyes, and other eye conditions, and tendonitis
  • Liver conditions: Liver qi stagnation, liver fire