Could and upset liver be a clue to Me/cfs?

[Irat]

Hi Irat, maybe this is the case, maybe what we consider healthy is not healthy at all? Like for example the fact that a lot of people are creating gallstones or calcifications, which is not a natural process. Why not to investigate it, I think we should investigate everything. It is possible that it is more than one factor that creates CFS. Maybe it is liver not working well along with something else? I think it can be difficult for researchers to find a mixed cause.

Oh I did investigate it on how the liver works etc and as I said above the liver is crucial to health. I read a lot about it and what helps....different approaches you can do ,first and forward diet.....

Dr.Ray Peat for example he has very good detailed informations on how the body works when becoming sick how the systems change and about learnt helplesness.

....Anthony Williams like Tammy said is Medicinal Medium he has easy to read stuff as well online,but i don t agree on everything .he says .and he is into fruits and detox which is not for me ......but I know many who swear by it

.and others like Marry Ruddick (back to joy) I like infomation wise,but she is on the low carb/keto site which is not for me either lol,but has studied ancesteral tribes and also uses limbic system retrainung .....

Dr.l.wilson the development programme, also good on how the body operates when sick,and how to remineralize and change the symphatetic dominance .,bit in Chinese medicine direction

Anyway one does not have to follow anyone's protocol in order to heal,only learn and doing what's best for oneself,and combine informations,


I give you the links

https://raypeat.com/

https://www.medicalmedium.com/

https://www.backtojoyprogram.com/team-member/mary-ruddick/

https://www.drlwilson.com/

( All of the have their broadcasts /channel on you tube if listening is preferred to reading)

 

[SlamDancin]

Keep in mind there is a liver - brain axis

 

[Viala]

Oh I did investigate it on how the liver works etc and as I said above the liver is crucial to health. I read a lot about it and what helps....different approaches you can do ,first and forward diet.....

Thank you for the links! I am not sure that fruity diet or keto would be helpful here, both can be taxing for the body. Maybe there is something else that we omitted? But I would need to read first more about what you just have sent.

 

[Irat]

Thank you for the links! I am not sure that fruity diet or keto would be helpful here, both can be taxing for the body. Maybe there is something else that we omitted? But I would need to read first more about what you just have sent.

Thats what he says about the liver and how he treats it.

https://www.medicalmedium.com/blog/epidemic-of-sluggish-liver

I think one can imply elements from different protocols ...,yes it takes time to read and figuring things out what works for oneself .

And keep in mind there are ppl who healed from ME who did not do any kind of protocol,detox

 

[SlamDancin]

I tend to think that literally nothing works correctly in ME/CFS including the liver but I do think it’s close to the brain in terms of importance. A lot of the neurotransmitters are active in the liver for example so low dopamine or alterations in serotonin are going to affect brain/liver/gut heavily.

 

[Irat]

I tend to think that literally nothing works correctly in ME/CFS including the liver but I do think it’s close to the brain in terms of importance. A lot of the neurotransmitters are active in the liver for example so low dopamine or alterations in serotonin are going to affect brain/liver/gut heavily.

That's what I m saying,our whole body is an complex orchestra and works in a feedback loop and we can t focusing only on one thing .we need to build our house from scratch.but first one need to understand how our body and brain works

 

[Tammy]

Thank you Tammy for recommending this book, I will look into it. I also think that liver may be the cause, well, along with many others of course. Does the book mention anything about our symptoms? What are the suggested solutions?

I don't think the liver is the cause per say but I do think taking care of the liver is vital/critical. As far as symptoms.....Anthony talks about symptoms of CFS a lot in all of his books including the Liver Rescue book. I cannot give you suggested solutions in a nutshell...................too much info and explaining to do! Sorry..............hope you understand.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Has anyone noticed that they are always reminds us to have our liver's carefully checked when we take a variety of pills.

How funny that I don' t see any body checking my liver ever.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I don't think the liver is the cause

doubt its a cause, but its just doing a whole lot of work.....

 

[Boba]

My liver enzymes came back elevated, all of them. Could be due to Valtrex or Abilify which I took over several months. IgE is elevated as well. Will get a scan next week to see if there’s damage to the liver. I’m in this since 12 months and my liver is already going crazy.

 

[wastwater]

Immune Complement system is linked to the liver
I suspect I have inherited a c3 deficiency but it says it can also be aquired mainly through alcohol damage but I wondered how else can it be aquired maybe virus or cytokines
Aquired immunodeficiency
under reaction to bacteria over reaction to viruses

 

[Replenished]

I'm leaning towards the liver being heavily involved as well. For me at least anyway.

I also have ongoing high cholesterol for some unknown reason. My stools are pale in colour and often float. I suspect lack of bile and possibly cholestasis. Unsure how to go about repairing this issue though if the liver is dysfunctional.

 

[Alvin2]

I'm leaning towards the liver being heavily involved as well. For me at least anyway.

I also have ongoing high cholesterol for some unknown reason. My stools are pale in colour and often float. I suspect lack of bile and possibly cholestasis. Unsure how to go about repairing this issue though if the liver is dysfunctional.

You could try taking Taurine, its involved in bile synthesis.

 

[Richard7]

My stools are pale in colour and often float. I suspect lack of bile and possibly cholestasis. Unsure how to go about repairing this issue though if the liver is dysfunctional.

I have the same problem. Like some above I think that this issue is probably downstream of whatever perpetuates ME/CFS, but it is still capable of causing further damage.

Bile is important for both absorbing fat soluble nutrients and disposing of fat soluble wastes.

To try to deal with this I at first started taking ox bile (it comes dried an powdered in capsules) and later found that I did not need supplementary bile if I ate enough liver or drank hibiscus tea.

I assume that the liver I was consuming was providing some biochemicals that my own liver was not producing.

I do not know exactly what the hibiscus tea does, only that when searching for answers I found that it has been used as a herbal remedy for non alcoholic fatty liver disease and that there have been experiments showing it to be effective in rodents.

 

[Richard7]

If people want to supplement to produce bile/ more bile:

Dosing with ox bile is a little difficult. You have a circulating pool of bile that is mostly recycled, so the trick is to take a relatively large dose until you get bile diarrhoea and then scale back till you no longer have the diarrhoea but do still have the right stool colour. The brands I used came in 500mg and 125mg capsules so I used the 500mg to start and 125mg thereafter.


With liver I found that I needed it almost every day at the beginning (100g/day of pate so maybe 60g/day of liver), and then found taht I could scale down to about 200g of liver every week to 10 days. I cannot remember ever getting bile diarrhoea from using liver to produce bile.

I cannot remember the details of when I stumbled on using hibiscus tea to produce bile. I recently switched from using liver back to using hibiscus tea because I was concerned that I had been overconsuming vitamin A. I found at first that I desired large amounts of it (litres/day) and produced a lot of bile diarrhoea. But as I wanted to detox I just drank however much I desired and let the diarrhoea happen until I found that I was only having about 300-500ml/day and seem to be producing the right amount of bile judged by stool colour. (I buy the dried hibiscus flowers by the kilo and make a very strong tea.)

 

[Replenished]

If people want to supplement to produce bile/ more bile:

Dosing with ox bile is a little difficult. You have a circulating pool of bile that is mostly recycled, so the trick is to take a relatively large dose until you get bile diarrhoea and then scale back till you no longer have the diarrhoea but do still have the right stool colour. The brands I used came in 500mg and 125mg capsules so I used the 500mg to start and 125mg thereafter.


With liver I found that I needed it almost every day at the beginning (100g/day of pate so maybe 60g/day of liver), and then found taht I could scale down to about 200g of liver every week to 10 days. I cannot remember ever getting bile diarrhoea from using liver to produce bile.

I cannot remember the details of when I stumbled on using hibiscus tea to produce bile. I recently switched from using liver back to using hibiscus tea because I was concerned that I had been overconsuming vitamin A. I found at first that I desired large amounts of it (litres/day) and produced a lot of bile diarrhoea. But as I wanted to detox I just drank however much I desired and let the diarrhoea happen until I found that I was only having about 300-500ml/day and seem to be producing the right amount of bile judged by stool colour. (I buy the dried hibiscus flowers by the kilo and make a very strong tea.)

I'm not sure how long someone would have to take ox bile for to typically get bile diarrhea but I've been taking it daily for about 6 months before my main meal and I've not had any bile diarrhea?

 

[keepswimming]

My CFS started with EBV, which damaged my liver to the point my doctor thought of admitting me to hospital. My liver function is back to normal now. So it's possible that was a factor with me.

 

[Richard7]

I'm not sure how long someone would have to take ox bile for to typically get bile diarrhea but I've been taking it daily for about 6 months before my main meal and I've not had any bile diarrhea?

Interesting from memory it took a month or so of taking 3 x 500mg ox bile per day.

 

[Replenished]

Interesting from memory it took a month or so of taking 3 x 500mg ox bile per day.

So you think that would be a better idea, to take more bile until I get bile diarrhea and then essentially my circulating supply of bile would be adequate/back to normal? I'm a little confused.

 

[mariovitali]

Just to let you know, please be careful with supplementing bile acids. I heard stories of people getting polyps in the bile duct after bile acids supplementation.