Copper deficiency....?

[Violeta]

Yes, even if it is messed up hormones, that still wouldn't answer the question why.

 

[Violeta]

@Violeta , thank you so much!

So far I have suppressed frequent urination 3x in 12 months:

1) going gluten free. It lasted almost 2 months until I foolishly started taking garlic caps
2) taking mB12. The honeymoon was shortlived
3) magnesium supplementation. It was a honeymoon also. There is always something missing.

Right now I am supplementing a multimineral containing

Se 80mcg
Zn 15mg
Cu 450mcg
Mn 1,5mg
Boron 2mg

I think I will add some extra copper to it.

I also take a low dose B complex. Not taking any B12 or B9 right now since I have been experiencing some brain fog from them. I also supplement silica 2-3x a week hoping it will chelate my high aluminum. Meanwhile, still urinating more than I wish to. After magnesium supplementation at least the day time urination seems to be normal now.

izzy

That's interesting about the magnesium helping with the daytime frequency, what type of magnesium do you take?
Reishi helped for a while with night time frequency, I got off the regular supplementing of it when I was trying RS last spring. I have to get back. But I just realized today that I need to get back on a regular small amounts of B2 throughout the day because headaches have been much more frequent again lately.

I think I discontinue stuff even when I need it because as you said......there's always something missing.

 

[Gondwanaland]

That's interesting about the magnesium helping with the daytime frequency, what type of magnesium do you take?

It took me several months until I found a form of magnesium I could tolerate. At first I tried Mg glycinate (glycine antagonizes neurotransmitters and I suspect I have MAO-A issues - and it made me feel just unwell). Then I tried Epsom salt foot baths - with high ammonia the sulfate accumulates (I suspect CBS issues). Then citrate - not good. Then aspartate - the worst moodwise.

Then I finally tried Mg oxide, started with 100mg, was able to titrate it up slowly to bowel tolerance (600mg) and stayed there for about 5 weeks, feeling the best since my mB12 honeymoon earlier this year.

Then my gut asked to lower it. That is also when I started waking up again in the middle of the night to urinate - magnesium was lacking before and then it became too much. Right now I am taking only 80mg daily with my B complex.

I avoid calcium supplementation b/c a few years ago I had a DVT episode and took warfarin for 1.5 years. So I have hardened veins/arteries.

Reishi helped for a while with night time frequency, I got off the regular supplementing of it when I was trying RS last spring. I have to get back.

Interesting. I can't try immunomodulators right now due to high auto-antibodies (thyroid).

But I just realized today that I need to get back on a regular small amounts of B2 throughout the day because headaches have been much more frequent again lately.

How does B2 help w/ migraines? Reducing Fe and Cu?

I think I discontinue stuff even when I need it because as you said......there's always something missing.

It's the story of my life... I would up my copper today, but stupidly took a capsule of vitamin A and felt congested (liver) the whole day Not the best moment to raise copper

izzy

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yes it could be hormones. It could....but then why with all the supplementing I've been doing over the years have my adrenals and thyroid not recovered....? My total guess is some sort of toxin has messed up our systems, and continues to do so. Like it's thrown our system out of balance and it's not recovered properly since...

Does the water in your town contain cloramine? Even if it doesn't, you could try a shower filter, and drink a good quality spring water...

 

[Violeta]

Gondwanaland, maybe you already know this, but I will mention it just in case, Vitamin K2 is supposed to help undo what the warfarin did. I'm actually not sure why B2 is good for migraines, but it probably is because of clearing the iron and copper out of the liver. I have to go back and read through the thread, I didn't realize you are trying to raise copper levels.

Have you tried choline for your liver? That might make taking vitamin a easier.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Gondwanaland, maybe you already know this, but I will mention it just in case, Vitamin K2 is supposed to help undo what the warfarin did.

Yes, my vit D contains 100mcg of vit K2 and I am in the process of selecting an additional vit K2 - trying to decide what dosage to add - I must be careful b/c I have trombophilia and it does antagonize vit E.

I didn't realize you are trying to raise copper levels

Low copper is supposed to be involved in capillar fragility. I believe I have many signs of low copper and tests show borderline low.

Have you tried choline for your liver? That might make taking vitamin a easier.

I don't think I need vit A supplementation at all , thanks for the tip anyway!

 

[Violeta]

Izzy, have you considered lack of arginine vasopressin?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Izzy, have you considered lack of arginine vasopressin?

I haven't looked into it in detail... Thanks for the hint, I will put it on top of my research topics.

I have considered taking a multi-glandular supplement, but it is very complicated to get one here where I live.

 

[Violeta]

I don't know what the answer to that problem is, I've seen that there is a med for it that more often than not just makes people sick. I've seen it with respect to Lyme or one of the coinfections, and that it clears up when the infection does.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I don't know what the answer to that problem is, I've seen that there is a med for it that more often than not just makes people sick. I've seen it with respect to Lyme or one of the coinfections, and that it clears up when the infection does.

And yes, of course my polyuria started after being bitten 10 years ago. >sigh<

 

[acer2000]

FWIW I took 2mg of copper on several occasions and it made me feel pretty unwell. Lethargic and kind of out of it. Not sure what to make of that.

 

[Gondwanaland]

FWIW I took 2mg of copper on several occasions and it made me feel pretty unwell. Lethargic and kind of out of it. Not sure what to make of that.

Once I took 450mcg of ionic copper and felt the worst, liver congested, really unwell. Then I learned to always take copper together with zinc and let my body decide how much of that it needs. The proportion is 10:1 of Zn and Cu.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Time to report back my trials... In case this helps someone else out there (and hope someone can actually understand it ).

I have been taking a low dose B complex w/ magnesium
B1 15mg
B2 5mg
Niacin 25mg
B5 30mg
P5P 10mg
B7 300mcg
magnesium oxide 80mg

Then I added a multimineral with tiny amounts of copper, with the intention to top it with additional copper and reach a proportion of 10:1 zinc to copper.

My personal concern with taking appropriate amounts of copper is that I tested borderline low for it in both hair and RBC tests, am always borderline low for hemoglobin/RBC and I believe my DVT a couple of years ago was due to blood vessel fragility (it involved a hurt shoulder).

At first I was taking the multimin apart from the Bcompl, but later I took one at the beginning of breakfast and the other at the end of breakfast (they are divided in two doses, and the 2nd dose I took apart from each other - one at lunch and the other w/ my afternoon snack).

The trick part is that my multimin contains 2mg Boron, and as we concluded here, it depletes/antagonizes B2 and I think I also read soemwhere else B6 as well.

When I started taking Bcompl and multimin together I noticed my serotonin was affected, and didn't understand why, I suspected something was too much in my multimineral.

So, if Boron wastes the B2, the copper I was taking (and upping) became toxic. I also read somewhere that high copper wastes B1.

When I finally realized it yesterday, I was feeling congested (still am and w/ swollen liver ) and took 100mg of magnesium - which didn't help. Then I remembered that the copper antidote is molybdenum... but didn't want to take it b/c it raises uric acid (will have to take it today anyway) and ate an apple which helped (malic acid?).

Yes, it's all so complicated...

 

[Sporty]

Time to report back my trials... In case this helps someone else out there (and hope someone can actually understand it ).

I have been taking a low dose B complex w/ magnesium
B1 15mg
B2 5mg
Niacin 25mg
B5 30mg
P5P 10mg
B7 300mcg
magnesium oxide 80mg

Then I added a multimineral with tiny amounts of copper, with the intention to top it with additional copper and reach a proportion of 10:1 zinc to copper.

My personal concern with taking appropriate amounts of copper is that I tested borderline low for it in both hair and RBC tests, am always borderline low for hemoglobin/RBC and I believe my DVT a couple of years ago was due to blood vessel fragility (it involved a hurt shoulder).

At first I was taking the multimin apart from the Bcompl, but later I took one at the beginning of breakfast and the other at the end of breakfast (they are divided in two doses, and the 2nd dose I took apart from each other - one at lunch and the other w/ my afternoon snack).

The trick part is that my multimin contains 2mg Boron, and as we concluded here, it depletes/antagonizes B2 and I think I also read soemwhere else B6 as well.

When I started taking Bcompl and multimin together I noticed my serotonin was affected, and didn't understand why, I suspected something was too much in my multimineral.

So, if Boron wastes the B2, the copper I was taking (and upping) became toxic. I also read somewhere that high copper wastes B1.

When I finally realized it yesterday, I was feeling congested (still am and w/ swollen liver ) and took 100mg of magnesium - which didn't help. Then I remembered that the copper antidote is molybdenum... but didn't want to take it b/c it raises uric acid (will have to take it today anyway) and ate an apple which helped (malic acid?).

Yes, it's all so complicated...

Too complicated for words! Why does all this affect us so much and others nothing....

 

[acer2000]

So did they molybdenum help? I still feel crappy and I took 2mg of copper more than a week ago. :-( Took some zinc and it didn't help.

 

[Gondwanaland]

So did they molybdenum help? I still feel crappy and I took 2mg of copper more than a week ago. :-( Took some zinc and it didn't help.

I took extrta 500mcg of copper 2x alongside my multimineral and am learning the hard way why a toxic person should not supplement copper no matter what

I took some molybdenum, small dose, to see if it would help some, didn't notice any benefit, didn't have the guts to take a larger dose.

Instead I am taking silymarin (150mg 1 hour after breakfast, and again one hour after lunch - I think today I will also take a third capsule 1 hour after dinner), followed by psyllium husks to bind the toxic byproducts (about 45 minutes after the silymarin). It is helping immensely and I am sleeping well and waking up refreshed, brain fog is gone as of today

Warning about silymarin/milk thistle - it is high in
sulfur/thiol
histamine
salicylate
nitrate
phenol

It is a liver detox and taking psyllium husks or activated charcoal afterwards to soak up the toxic stuff coming out of the liver helps with side effects which can include worsened malaise/ flu symptoms

I think I can tolerate it right now b/c I recently replenished with magnesium

Please note that I am navigating thru my symptoms (trial and error), it might not work for you.

 

[Mels]

This is interesting; I took one teaspoon of ionic copper 3 days ago and had an immediate unsettled feeling in emotions and felt generally unsettled. I have noticed that my liver area has been even more distended and painful since. Having read your comments I guess I was not imagining that it was the copper.

I have been toxic for some time anyway but this definitely did not help!

I took milk thistle with pretty good effects for about 2 months last year but then it all went wrong and caused me massive setbacks.....have since linked it to it having initiated glutathione production over and beyond what my CBS upregulation could tolerate, and it is high in sulphur.

Am now getting sulphur under control - but have triggered an amino acid deficiency in the process as I adhered to Yasko's low protein guidelines. So be warned!

Now my sulphate levels seem under control I was wondering about trying alpha lipoic acid for liver support. Anybody tried it?

I like the rationale behind coffee enemas for liver detox and do them every so often but they definitely deplete my potassium levels.

Would really like to give the liver flush a go but worry that it might make me worse.....if that's possible! Anybody dared to do one yet?

.......and to think my GP said try gaviscone when I saw him 3 weeks ago with kidney, liver and pancres pain....not to mention gout symptoms.

Good luck everybody

Mel

 

[Gondwanaland]

I took milk thistle with pretty good effects for about 2 months last year but then it all went wrong and caused me massive setbacks.....have since linked it to it having initiated glutathione production over and beyond what my CBS upregulation could tolerate, and it is high in sulphur.

Am now getting sulphur under control - but have triggered an amino acid deficiency in the process as I adhered to Yasko's low protein guidelines. So be warned!

Now my sulphate levels seem under control I was wondering about trying alpha lipoic acid for liver support. Anybody tried it?

I think that milk thistle for 2 months can be hard on the liver, depleting magnesium (and whatnot) and perhaps enhancing detox too much, and even causing toxin redistribution. I think ALA will be the same. I have no experience w/ ALA, but would not take it other than as advised by Cutler. Not so soon though, since I am trying to improve my health to replace 5 remaining amalgams.

I like the rationale behind coffee enemas for liver detox and do them every so often but they definitely deplete my potassium levels.

I hope to get around doing coffe enemas soon, as per @ahmo.
Replenishing minerals must be part of the protocol.

Would really like to give the liver flush a go but worry that it might make me worse.....if that's possible! Anybody dared to do one yet?

I hope sometime soon I will have gut to try it also (pun intended). As I understand it, it must be done about every 45 days for at least 2 years.

and to think my GP said try gaviscone when I saw him 3 weeks ago with kidney, liver and pancres pain....not to mention gout symptoms.

 

[Rand56]

I know this is an older thread, but recently I came across this 2 part youtube presentation with Morley Robbins talking about Copper Dysregulation. His views might be old news to some of you, but I learned some things I didn't know. I don't know if other so-called experts agree with his views, but I found this all pretty interesting. Just thought I'd pass this along. Some of the major takeaways I got from this are....

He says about 90% of his clients have copper dysregulation.

Vitamin A "retinol" is the first thing needed for ceruloplasmin production.

He says people can get in trouble by supplementing higher amounts of Vit D because of it's antagonism with Vit A, since A retinol is needed for ceruloplasmin production.

He is not a fan of ascorbic acid, only whole food Vit C. He says AA takes the copper off ceruloplasmin.

HFCS destroys production of ceruloplasmin, and causes iron toxicity.

He says people with hypercholesterolemia is from a copper deficiency and said this was proven back in 1972.

Higher ACTH levels lower ceruloplasmin production. The reason why he favors getting magnesium levels up.

Here is part 1 of 2. I'll put part 2 in the next post...

 

[Rand56]

Part 2.....