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B2 I love you!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by brenda, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Tunguska

    Tunguska

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    Wow, now I wish I had read the whole 40 pages better. I didn't know Boron binds B2 either. I took it every day (3-20mgs) for arthralgias and because it seemed to give a slight clarity and I was probably deficient in Boron (based on diet at the time). Could help explain whatever B2 deficiency I might have had or its ineffectiveness. Thanks

    http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/24/1_MeetingAbstracts/537.13
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
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  2. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I do know that boron binds B2, but I need to take the boron (4.5 mg) for my osteoporosis. I take it several hours after the B2, which stays in your system only a few hours.

    Are riboflavin binding proteins a good thing? I eat eggs not too long after taking B2.
     
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  3. Tunguska

    Tunguska

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    I don't know. There's this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800955

    If you calculate from their numbers looks like there's ~0.5mg of "riboflavin-protein binding power" (whatever you'd call that) in a large egg, but only ~0.2mg riboflavin that comes with it. Assuming my math isn't totally off.

    I don't know if digestion does a good job of unbinding it or not.

    I also ate a lot of eggs...
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
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  4. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    I don't know, but wish someone that did know would answer here. I currently, on average, eat 2 or 3 eggs a day and wonder if this is actually depleting available riboflavin.

    When I first started chelation I got wonderful clarity of mind after taking B2. However, this ended in short order and have been unable to reproduce despite many varied approaches. It all gets too damn complicated for me to figure.
     
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  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    In reviewing my notes on communications with Christine, I find:
    “Eggs are very high in choline, biotin and have some folic acid - all lower B2.”


    So, yes, it sounds like they could be depleting available riboflavin. They are cheap, nutritious, easy to prepare, and I like them too well to quit eating them. Maybe take more B2 before eating eggs?
     
    Lou likes this.
  6. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Well, there you have it(provided Christine knew what she was talking about), and I think I'll do same, Little Bluestem, take some additional B2, see if that helps. Good work.
     
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  7. rayco

    rayco

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    folic acid in eggs? where does it come from since FA is synthetic......maybe the feed that was given to the chickens.
     
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  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Riboflavin-binding protein makes riboflavin unavailable.
    Egg whites contain avidin which makes the biotin from the yolk unavailable too.

    The yolk actually contains methylfolate, I believe.

    izzy
     
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  9. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    More on the B2 coenzymes FAD and FMN.....

    The coenzymes FAD and FMN have many biological functions. They act as cofactors for several enzymes involved in redox reactions and in the metabolism of other B vitamins (folate, vitamin B-6, and niacin). Such enzymes can be FAD dependent, such as methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR), which plays an important role in folate and homocysteine metabolism, and the erythrocyte enzyme glutathione reductase (GR), or FMN dependent, such as the enzyme pyridoxine phosphate oxidase (PPO), which converts dietary vitamin B-6 to the biologically active form, pyridoxal phosphate.
     
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  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Thanks, @Violeta for bumping this thread. While my knowledge isn't enough yet to appreciate the info you posted, rereading some old posts here helped me to sort out my current problems with B complex and mineral supplementation...
    My multimin has a tiny amount of copper, and I am trying to up it to a proportion of 10:1 of zinc to copper, but feeling bad (sore liver and serotonin issues due to lowered B2 due to the Boron content!). So it means I just have to take my multimin a few hours apart from my Bcomplex, since the Boron is antagonizing B2 and possibly the B6 as well. Well, then there is a cascade involving

    Boron - B2 - Copper - neurotransmitters
    Boron - B6 - Zinc - neurotransmitters
    Magnesium - Aluminum - Boron - neurotransmitters

    ad infinitum...
     
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I wish my brain worked better, too, I don't really have the ability to get into the information about the riboflavin enzymes.

    I was using mostly eggs for protein for about 2 weeks, and taking boron in the form of borax during that time. I had no idea they raised the need for more B2. But my vision went down hill almost over night. Two days ago I started to be more careful with my B2 supplementing and my vision has cleared up somewhat.

    That's a very interesting study about the boron and B2. I am trying to find something that shows how maybe the two of them work together with copper metabolism. I see, Izzy, that you have the boron, zinc, and B6 grouped together, another very interesting clue. Thank you.
     
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  12. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    Hi Everyone

    Long time listener, first time caller, as they say. First time on this thread, at least.

    I have been taking b2 for the past week or so. It is my second go at it, my first one having given me insomnia, which prompted me to stop and read through this long but fantastic thread.

    At the same time that I started B2, I went off of methyl B12, methylfolate, and took active B1 down from 1000 mg to 150 mg per day. (In case anyone is interested I am homozygous for MTHFR C699T). At this point I am taking what it seems like is more B2 than most people: I take 14 mg maybe six times a day, including before bed and about four hours into sleep. Total that would be 84 mg per day.

    Things I have noticed:
    -A post-nasal drip. I am assuming this is lymph moving around, which is exciting, as this has been an issue for me. About a year ago I started giving myself castor oil packs on my liver each night to help with lymph movement--and it had a noticeable effect. So getting my body to do it itself is great.
    -Fuller use of my lungs, particularly the top part. Deeper, more resonant voice this morning (maybe I needed B12 too for this?).
    -Better, more timely sleep: Instead of waiting until 11 or 12 at night to sleep, I now feel tired starting maybe 9:00 pm. I haven't tried sleeping then yet, but I plan to. Last night I went off a chinese formula that I have used for years, and it *seems* that I slept alright. Time will tell if that holds up.
    -Urine has sometimes been yellow, sometimes fairly pale. I read someone (can't remember who, my appologies!) quoting Christine/Dog Person as saying to watch for signs of B12 deficiency, then take some. The signs were light urine; sore mouth/throat; and low energy. Which is all to say that this might be from not enough B12.
    -Fatigue: I have been fairly to somewhat tired at times. More physically than mentally. Magnesium seems to help. B12 may help. Taking some of the R5P variety of B2 rather than the regular kind may help.
    -Insomnia: I haven't had any this time, but last time I did, and I believe the difference is that the first time I tried switching to B2, I was using the R5P variety entirely (I took maybe 35 mg per day). Although Christine said that we have to remove the phosphate (leaving us with plain 'ol B2 again) in order to absorb it, I think some of us with leaky guts might ignore that rule. Other possibilities are that B2 interacted with the high doses of B1 I had been taking.
    -Mild nausea: Much of the time. I suspect it occurs mainly in the hours after eating. I still take a teaspoon of turmeric after food, perhaps this is it? In any case, nausea this regularly did not happen prior to the B2.

    Before starting on B2, I had blood tests for B2 status, hemoglobin, and possibly a complete blood count. (My doc called me with the results, so I don't physically have them yet.) They were all normal. Prior to this, I had been taking laktoferrin daily, so perhaps this has helped my iron status remain normal.

    I haven't started taking manganese yet, because of a prior occasion when it gave me insomnia for weeks after stopping it. But after teasing out the B12-B2 interaction a bit more, I may start a somewhat low dose of Mn.

    I'm not answering a question, and I don't necessarily have one either. But I thought I would add my two bits to our body of B2 experiences.

    Best Wishes.
     
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