Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

[Marc_NL]

usually people cannot rate how they feel on an absolute scale

I think in general this is true, especially if you want to rate between 1 and 10.

That's why I rate my days with less levels:
0 = crash
1 = not good
2 = ok (ish)
3 = good (does not mean like a healthy because this includes pacing)

If I add these numbers for a week and compare the weeks I think it's pretty accurate

Is this objective? No, but for me it's good enough to compare the general feeling over a longer period.

 

[eljefe19]

@Hip I'm thinking of trying Pramipexole instead of low dose Amisulpride. The Wikipedia entry for Prami says it has some effect on mitochondria. There is a study on its benefits in fibromyalgia too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16052595/
It's a stronger D3 agonist than D2 I believe.

 

[Hip]

@eljefe19 Pramipexole is not an anti-anxiety medication.

 

[eljefe19]

I ordered Amisulpride instead. Ive been trialing it at 12.5mg and it's very subtle. Is 25mg too high a dose? What makes something such as Amisulpride or Abilify that makes them effective anxiety meds versus Pramipexole. Also that study said it reduced pain and fatigue in Fibromyalgia patients.

 

[Hip]

What makes something such as Amisulpride or Abilify that makes them effective anxiety meds versus Pramipexole.

It probably originally just emerges from empirical studies, which observe anxiolytic effects with given compounds. Later they might figure out the mechanism of action.

The mechanism of action will relate to the receptor binding profile of a compound (which receptors it binds to) and whether it agonizes or antagonizes those receptors. Amisulpride's binding profile is here. It will also relate to whether a compound can increase or decrease the expression of a receptor, or whether it can affect neurotransmitter transporters, such as the serotonin transporter (that's one of the ways SSRIs work), or affect enzymes such as monoamine oxidase, which breaks down various neurotransmitters.

Generally, the serotonin, glutamate and GABA systems are the ones most involved with anxiety.

 

[Tunguska]

I was interested in low-dose amisulpride since reading it on Hip's thread some year(s) ago (what is time) but the sourcing was an issue, and for dopamine boost alone there are enough alternatives.

But now apparently it's a well known 5-HT7 antagonist? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841472/ (came from the area1255 guy's blog) @Hip do you think it plausible it's 5-HT7 rather than dopamine receptors responsible for the benefits of low-dose?

 

[Hip]

@Hip do you think it plausible it's 5-HT7 rather than dopamine receptors responsible for the benefits of low-dose?

I couldn't really say without spending some time looking into it, but probably not, given the very low doses used.

 

[Chieftain]

That's not actual reason why I think objective measures are more accurate than subjective measures: how you feel is a very useful measure, but usually people cannot rate how they feel on an absolute scale. I know if I feel better or worse than yesterday, but I cannot really compare how I feel today compared to how I was feeling say 3 months ago. We don't tend to remember this.

That's an important point, which naturally leads me to ask: do you track subjective measures as well? What kind of system/scale/phrasing do you use for that?

 

[Hip]

@Chieftain I have started a new thread here about testing out drugs and supplements. If you want repost your above question on the new thread, I will answer it there.

 

[realturbo]

My suggestion would be to try NAG initially, say at a dose of 700 mg two or three times a day, and see if that helps reduce anxiety levels. If it does, I think that may indicate that you have brain inflammation causing the anxiety.

Study finds anti-inflammatory effect of arthritis drug boosts effectiveness of antidepressant medication

Previous studies have found that depression revs up the immune system, resulting in chronic inflammation. This inflammatory response affects the normal balance of chemical messengers in the brain called neurotransmitters. Inflammation hinders the function of antidepressants that are designed to restore normal chemical balance. By fighting inflammation, celecoxib appears to make antidepressants more effective, Dr. Halaris said.

Celecoxib is used to treat pain, redness, swelling and inflammation from arthritis. It also can manage acute pain and menstrual cramps. By itself, it does not treat depression.

The study’s findings support the hypothesis that inflammation plays a critical role in depression. Reducing inflammation with a drug such as celecoxib “reverses treatment resistance and enhances overall antidepressant response,” Dr. Halaris wrote in the study. “Such an intervention, if implemented relatively early in the course of the disease, may arrest the neuroprogressive course of bipolar disorder.”

 

[enro]

Hip,

Thanks for starting this thread and for all the informative follow ups from everyone. I stumbled here by searching for relief for nasal congestion due to constant allergies and so I'm about to start with the NAG.

At the beginning of the thread you mentioned that the Swanson brand is shellfish-free, and made from yeast. Do you have confirmation of that somewhere? I ordered it before seeing this thread and emailed Swanson to ask them about the ingredients. This was their response:

"We have spoken with our Product Specialists regarding item SWU931- N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine (N-A-G). They have informed us that the ingredients we receive from our manufacturer do not provide the source the product is derived from. Due to this we cannot guarantee if the product is shellfish free or not. We are very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause."

So, no help there. But hoping to start with it soon. I'm not allergic to shellfish as far as I know (I don't eat shellfish either way) but if possible it would probably set my mind at ease to know it couldn't trigger a new allergy.

Thanks for any info.

 

[Hip]

At the beginning of the thread you mentioned that the Swanson brand is shellfish-free, and made from yeast. Do you have confirmation of that somewhere?

Someone else I know contacted Swanson, and was told this:

"We are happy to explain. Our SWU931 Ultra N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine (N-A-G) is derived from Fermented yeast. However we encourage customers to stay away from products that do not specify shellfish free as it may vary from batch to batch."

So it seems that Swanson's N-acetyl-glucosamine product is derived from fermented yeast, not shellfish, but that they don't feel confident enough to guarantee it is shellfish-free. Oddly enough, on their glucosamine product, they do specifically say it is shellfish-free.

 

[enro]

Thanks, Hip.

Interesting that there wouldn't be a consistent process/source for them for NAG.

Someone else I know contacted Swanson, and was told this:


So it seems that Swanson's N-acetyl-glucosamine product is derived from fermented yeast, not shellfish, but that they don't feel confident enough to guarantee it is shellfish-free. Oddly enough, on their glucosamine product, they do specifically say it is shellfish-free.

 

[OZZY]

I'd really just like to thank Hip for this post and the information provided. I've lived on the edge of hell for 3 years with chronic, paralysing anxiety and have quite literally tried EVERYTHING to come back to normal...and 1 hour after taking the NAG, I knew myself once again. I now sleep undisrupted. I'm attentive. I can work without fearing bottoming out...and I can now look forward to life - as opposed to living under a heavy cloud of impeding dread.
Thankyou so very much.

 

[Hip]

literally tried EVERYTHING to come back to normal...and 1 hour after taking the NAG, I knew myself once again. I now sleep undisrupted. I'm attentive. I can work without fearing bottoming out...and I can now look forward to life - as opposed to living under a heavy cloud of impeding dread.

Very pleased to hear that, @OZZY. And thanks for posting your positive results. Please let us know if NAG continues to work for you in the months ahead.

Can I ask, do you also have chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), like most do on this forum, or is anxiety disorder the only condition or illness that you have?

The reason I ask because I'd like to get some sense of whether this NAG anxiety treatment works for the general population as well as patients with CFS (who sometimes get anxiety symptoms with their CFS). There have been others on this thread who benefitted from NAG, and only had anxiety, but no CFS.

Were you diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, by the way? And did you try the usual pharmaceutical treatments for your anxiety, such as SSRI drugs, or benzodiazepine drugs?

 

[carer51]

I am searching for something to help my GAD (possibly with some CPTSD features/causes from childhood). I've been through many SSRIS and an SNRI, pregabalin, quetiapine, mirtazapine, and recently I read about buspirone and I sounded great - my doctor was an arse so i sourced i myself - but it caused the horrible black fatigue/malaise that SSRIS gave me (took me years to see the link, I don't have CFS but I was increasingly having cfs like symptoms, as well as back pain which moved around and didn't respond much to treatment). So I am left wondering what the hell my options are. I've had CBT, I know it well, I've run a support group, i'm in therapy yet again. I seem to have a sophisticated psychological process behind my anxiety that rationality doesn't want ro touch.

Anyway. I take flax anyway, I found it magically vastly improved the brain zaps/shivers I experienced for months whilst tapering venlafaxine if I took 2000mg, so clearly it has an effect on neurotransmitters.

I have some simple kitchen turmeric and some 1000mg empty capsules, will those do apart from the yellow fingers? Maybe it's not worth the effort and ill buy some. And it sounds like NAG is worth a try. Back to Amazon then...

We have an utterly stupid array of supplements now which I've bought to try to help james and either put to one side as useless or not practical or not worth possible side effects so I feel a bit ashamed of all the money I've spent. I do feel more confident about the vitamin d, b12, magnesium and thiamin and flax he's taking now though. Plus CBD oil suppositories for pain.

 

[carer51]

The ones listed in the first post of this thread.



Yes, and I think MDMA too. I'd like to try psilocybin microdosing to see if it might help certain ME/CFS symptoms. Until recently, psilocybin mushrooms used to be legal to sell in the UK.

I'm a bit wary of MDMA for this because of the way it burns out serotonin. A comedown can bring on the worst depression you've ever felt. Maybe microdosing would be different.

I've also read a lot recently about psilocybin and microdosing and done some practical research. Results vary but it can give a blissful holiday from the nagging, bullying ego and some objective compassionate insights. But it can also make you cry because the beedogs website is gone. Ahem.

I read that psilocybin mimics the serotonin molecule, so doesn't burn out your supply as it were.

That's for anxiety/depression and whatnot though, I read that it may give some temporary relief for CFS symptoms but not lasting like the potentially lasting effects on depression (in a recent publicised study). I would also expect my partner to have a bad nausea reaction given his sensitivity in that area to everything else.

Apologies for reviving a very old conversation, I wanted to see if others had mental health issues and had considered/tried this.

 

[Hip]

Hi @carer51

N-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG) I found has the most potent anti-anxiety effect of the all the supplements listed. NAG and many other anti-anxiety supplements in my list I think will probably work best for people who have brain inflammation-driven anxiety (my own theory is that brain inflammation can cause anxiety symptoms).

If you tend to have other inflammatory symptoms in your body (eg, sinusitis, muscle cramps), then you may be a good candidate for these anti-anxiety supplements.

In the UK, you can buy NAG cheaply at Health Monthly.

 

[carer51]

I am susceptible to sinusitis - I don't know if that is the same - whenevrer i get a cold. And bronchitis. and I do get a horrible cramping in my neck at times and general stiffness. It's worth a try, I've ordered some. And perhaps anxiety from external factors can trigger inflammation and a self perpetuating cycle, who knows.

 

[xrayspex]

N-A-G -I just tried it again, its been a year or 2, can't recall why stopped it before after brief trial, but I could swear its coinciding with a reduction of pain the last few days-- been putting it in my smoothies. I googled it and was reminded it helps osteoarthritis which I have.........wow I hope it keeps working, would be an easy aid to do. I tried glucosamine on and off the last 25ish years a few times but the arthritis as a pain cause has really worsened so maybe time is right. but I have MCS so could go haywire tomorrow too...........I could see where anxiety and pain and asthma etc could be related in cause for people, I suspect a lot of mental health symptoms are probably immune related. I also feel less anxiety and more my" self". Like a breath of fresh air.

Actually I think the bottle of NAG I still have I bought in response to this thread a couple few years ago lol its such a long thread I feel weary to search back thru the whole thing (I have so many threads bookmarked from this forum want to get to someday) but I am curious if I recorded why it didnt work out for me back then....anyway cautiously optimistic today

https://www.verywell.com/benefits-of-n-acetyl-glucosamine-89221