Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

[clive powney]

hip here i will share being an indian ,that it will be better if turmeric is taken in form of dry rhizome,it is also selled in asian stores specially in india called as turmeric-sabut or haldi-sabut,more better will be buy it in form of root rhizome and then boil at home,expose it to sun then crushed it in mixer grinder,this is because in asia there are lot of chemicals and dye which are of same colour are mixed with turmeric and traders and shop keepers are making profit.

What is the sun? I am looking out of my window at 3 cm of snow -1 degree centigrade with a widchill to -7. Forecast is much the same for the next week or so at which point it may get to the dizzy heights of 5 degrees C

 

[Deeee]

some body guide me how to manage inositol dosage with my current precribed medicines-ssris 150 fluvoxamine;150mg venlafexene;1.5mg clonazapam,as i learned that inositol is also trigger ssri,will it help me out in long term to taper off medication,a lot of question running in my find,an sorry for my english and language as my english is not good as urs.

 

[Hip]

Somebody guide me how to manage inositol dosage with my current precribed medicines – SSRIs 150 mg fluvoxamine, 150mg venlafexene, 1.5mg clonazepam, as I learned that inositol is also trigger SSRI, will it help me out in long term to taper off medication?

What you mean by "trigger SSRI" ?

I don't think there is any specific guidance that can be given here. Most people who take supplements do so experimentally: they take the supplement (often trying it a different dose levels), and then observe how they feel. With supplements, you are generally guided by your own self observations. I would suggest that you keep a written record of your experiments, and write down each day the supplements you take, the doses you take, and also how you feel, and how your symptoms change with these supplements. Take a scientific approach, based on experiment, self-observation and on writing down your observations.


Another important thing to note is that supplements are often not as powerful as drugs, and if you have serious anxiety disorder symptoms, you may need to take a lot of different anti-anxiety supplements together in order to experience benefit. This can be expensive. At one point I was taking more than 10 different anti-anxiety supplements together.


Also, do you have any particular problems with taking SSRI drugs? Are the SSRIs not helping you? Are you getting side effects from the SSRIs?

I am just wondering why in particular you want to taper off medications.

Note that tapering off clonazepam, which is a benzodiazepine drug, can sometimes be difficult, and some people experience horrible withdrawal symptoms from stopping benzodiazepines. You can read a very interesting survey about benzodiazepine withdrawal here. About 50% of people have little or no symptoms on stopping benzodiazepines, but the other 50% can have moderate, severe or very severe symptoms on stopping.

So you need to be careful if you stop taking your clonazepam.

 

[Deeee]

What you mean by "trigger SSRI" ?

I don't think there is any specific guidance that can be given here. Most people who take supplements do so experimentally: they take the supplement (often trying it a different dose levels), and then observe how they feel. With supplements, you are generally guided by your own self observations. I would suggest that you keep a written record of your experiments, and write down each day the supplements you take, the doses you take, and also how you feel, and how your symptoms change with these supplements. Take a scientific approach, based on experiment, self-observation and on writing down your observations.


Another important thing to note is that supplements are often not as powerful as drugs, and if you have serious anxiety disorder symptoms, you may need to take a lot of different anti-anxiety supplements together in order to experience benefit. This can be expensive. At one point I was taking more than 10 different anti-anxiety supplements together.


Also, do you have any particular problems with taking SSRI drugs? Are the SSRIs not helping you? Are you getting side effects from the SSRIs?

I am just wondering why in particular you want to taper off medications.

Note that tapering off clonazepam, which is a benzodiazepine drug, can sometimes be difficult, and some people experience horrible withdrawal symptoms from stopping benzodiazepines. You can read a very interesting survey about benzodiazepine withdrawal here. About 50% of people have little or no symptoms on stopping benzodiazepines, but the other 50% can have moderate, severe or very severe symptoms on stopping.

So you need to be careful if you stop taking your clonazepam.

hip what is actual purpose of supplements,in my view it is to replace medicines in long term by taper off them,as supplements do not show side effects but ssri or any other medicines may be i am wrong,interested to know what u think ,
2nd ly i m saying trigerring of ssri bcz in many webs i have it has been mentioned that inositol act same as SSRI do,so in many cases it may cause serotin toxicity if u take serotonin in excess,that is why i was saying should inostol be taken with fluvoxamine nd venlafexene.please give ur views.
I liked the survey article,i think it is very useful for me taking decison over tapering of benzodiapezine,what i actually face is sleep reduction,nd physical anxiety.

 

[Deeee]

What you mean by "trigger SSRI" ?

I don't think there is any specific guidance that can be given here. Most people who take supplements do so experimentally: they take the supplement (often trying it a different dose levels), and then observe how they feel. With supplements, you are generally guided by your own self observations. I would suggest that you keep a written record of your experiments, and write down each day the supplements you take, the doses you take, and also how you feel, and how your symptoms change with these supplements. Take a scientific approach, based on experiment, self-observation and on writing down your observations.


Another important thing to note is that supplements are often not as powerful as drugs, and if you have serious anxiety disorder symptoms, you may need to take a lot of different anti-anxiety supplements together in order to experience benefit. This can be expensive. At one point I was taking more than 10 different anti-anxiety supplements together.


Also, do you have any particular problems with taking SSRI drugs? Are the SSRIs not helping you? Are you getting side effects from the SSRIs?

I am just wondering why in particular you want to taper off medications.

Note that tapering off clonazepam, which is a benzodiazepine drug, can sometimes be difficult, and some people experience horrible withdrawal symptoms from stopping benzodiazepines. You can read a very interesting survey about benzodiazepine withdrawal here. About 50% of people have little or no symptoms on stopping benzodiazepines, but the other 50% can have moderate, severe or very severe symptoms on stopping.

So you need to be careful if you stop taking your clonazepam.

i am also taking linseed oil 15 Ml and turmeric

 

[Hip]

hip what is actual purpose of supplements,in my view it is to replace medicines in long term by taper off them,as supplements do not show side effects but ssri or any other medicines may be i am wrong,interested to know what u think

I think that is right, provided the supplements do actually work well for you.

2nd ly i m saying trigerring of ssri bcz in many webs i have it has been mentioned that inositol act same as SSRI do,so in many cases it may cause serotin toxicity if u take serotonin in excess,that is why i was saying should inostol be taken with fluvoxamine nd venlafexene.please give ur views.

I don't know much about this, so let's ask Google.

 

[Deeee]

I think that is right, provided the supplements do actually work well for you.



I don't know much about this, so let's ask Google.

what is your experience with NAG ,May it help in long term to taper off the medicines?

 

[Hip]

what is your experience with NAG ,May it help in long term to taper off the medicines?

You tell me. Is NAG helping you to reduce your medication dose?

 

[Deeee]

You tell me. Is NAG helping you to reduce your medication dose?

i have not tried it.

 

[Deeee]

I found in http://www.livestrong.com/article/434774-is-it-safe-to-take-inositol-with-an-ssri/ and http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/h/can-i-take-inositol-with-ssris.html that inositol is not useful for those who are already on ssri ,now my next aim is to reduce my clonazapam dose and then venlafexene dosage,even i m on the way, i am taking clonazepam 1.25 ( also advised by doctor ) at bed time instead of 1.5, little bit uncomfortable with sleep,but i am expecting these symptoms will eliminate with time also instead of venlafexene 75 mg BD i am taking it only one in a day along with 150 mg fluvoxamine,also will keep taking inositol 6gm,turmeric 2 gm,flaxseed oil 15 ml,expecting this to counter the side effects of my above action,the one major problem is i am on job, and have to interact with peoples daily and i have not told about my problem to anybody ,lets see whats happen​

 

[Deeee]

can we take 2 or more supplements together.

 

[Deeee]

I found in http://www.livestrong.com/article/434774-is-it-safe-to-take-inositol-with-an-ssri/ and http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/h/can-i-take-inositol-with-ssris.html that inositol is not useful for those who are already on ssri ,now my next aim is to reduce my clonazapam dose and then venlafexene dosage,even i m on the way, i am taking clonazepam 1.25 ( also advised by doctor ) at bed time instead of 1.5, little bit uncomfortable with sleep,but i am expecting these symptoms will eliminate with time also instead of venlafexene 75 mg BD i am taking it only one in a day along with 150 mg fluvoxamine,also will keep taking inositol 6gm,turmeric 2 gm,flaxseed oil 15 ml,expecting this to counter the side effects of my above action,the one major problem is i am on job, and have to interact with peoples daily and i have not told about my problem to anybody ,lets see whats happen​

I found in http://www.livestrong.com/article/434774-is-it-safe-to-take-inositol-with-an-ssri/ and http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/h/can-i-take-inositol-with-ssris.html that inositol is not useful for those who are already on ssri ,now my next aim is to reduce my clonazapam dose and then venlafexene dosage,even i m on the way, i am taking clonazepam 1.25 ( also advised by doctor ) at bed time instead of 1.5, little bit uncomfortable with sleep,but i am expecting these symptoms will eliminate with time also instead of venlafexene 75 mg BD i am taking it only one in a day along with 150 mg fluvoxamine,also will keep taking inositol 6gm,turmeric 2 gm,flaxseed oil 15 ml,expecting this to counter the side effects of my above action,the one major problem is i am on job, and have to interact with peoples daily and i have not told about my problem to anybody ,lets see whats happen​

it has been almost 20 days of reducing dosage of conazapam,happy to post that this time i m not facing physical anxiety,most probably it is the outcome of supplements ,i am taking,but i am not comfortable with sleep,its dreamy,disturbed also facing alot upset in stomach,bloating specially which is causing me irritation.

 

[Little Bluestem]

can we take 2 or more supplements together.

Many of us take way more than 2 supplements together. You do need to be careful that none of them interact badly with one another or with any pharmaceuticals you may be taking.

 

[Deeee]

Many of us take way more than 2 supplements together. You do need to be careful that none of them interact badly with one another or with any pharmaceuticals you may be taking.

i am taking termeric ,inositol in powder form and flaxseed oil

 

[Little Bluestem]

http://www.drugs.com/ is one website where you can check the interactions of drugs, vitamins, and supplements.

 

[Deeee]

i want this thread to be in continuation,i request with members to keep posting their views and experience,it will be very usefull for others.

 

[Lotus97]

There is a whole theory that I have been working on to biochemically explain how generalized anxiety disorder arises in ME/CFS, and perhaps in general. You can read the ideas I proposed here and here.

Briefly, my theory is that brain inflammation can involve chronic microglial activation (CMA), and CMA causes lots of glutamate to be created in the brain, and this glutamate may then cause chronic overstimulation of the NMDA receptors. If this NMDA receptor overstimulation occurs in the amygdala, you are going to get generalized anxiety disorder, according to my hypothesis. If this glutamate-driven NMDA receptor overstimulation occurs in other parts of the brain, other mental symptoms may arise.

And in terms of these other mental symptoms, interestingly, Marco has recently proposed a theory on Cort's new ME/CFS blog, hypothesizing that many of the symptoms of ME/CFS are driven by NMDA receptor overstimulation and/or a glutamate/GABA neurotransmitter imbalance. See Marco's articles here and here. In particular, Marco proposes that the sensory gating deficit in ME/CFS (ie, sound, light, etc sensitivities) is due to glutamate overload.

Though whereas I have pointed a finger at chronic microglial activation as a main cause of the glutamate excess (and this Japanese study indicates that CMA does occur in ME/CFS), Marco has hypothesized that it is the glutamate clearing mechanisms in astrocyte cells in the brain that are at fault, so that glutamate is not effectively cleared, leading to glutamate excess.

In Stephen Buhner's book, Healing Lyme, he puts a lot of focus on reducing inflammation and modulating the immune system rather than simply trying to kill the Lyme bacteria. He also recommends supplements for combating quinolinic acid (QUIN). I think many of the herbal/supplemental remedies offered in the book would be applicable to many people with ME/CFS rather than just people with Lyme. For QUIN, he recommends copper, zinc, and selenium. Also, picolinic acid for QUIN, so if those minerals were picolinate chelates specifically that would be better. Swanson sells zinc picolinate and chromium picolinate for pretty cheap. Thorne also sells multivitamins and multimineral supplements with picolinate chelates. The multimineral one is called Pic-mins and there's a few different multivitamins with picolinate (not all of them have picolinate).

For inflammation and modulating the immune system, some of the ones he recommends are Japanese knotweed, cat's claw, and stephania root. With cat's claw he recommends the whole herb. Also for knotweed he prefers the whole herb rather than the standardized extracts of resveratrol and/or trans-resveratrol (two different things), but for inflammation the resveratrol and/or trans-resveratrol extracts might be fine. For stephania root it needs to be Stephania Tetrandra (Stephaniae Tetrandrae) specifically rather than another stephania species. There is one other species that might be ok which is stephania cepharantha, but I'm not sure that is commercially available anywhere besides Japan. Andrographis extract (not the whole herb) is also recommended. That can cause loss of taste for small percentage of people.

I've also found an article about inflammation, glutamate, microglia, and depression. It also discusses astrocytes and astroglia so it sort ties together some of the articles you referenced. And there's a section on quinolinic acid in the article too: http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1590

 

[Hip]

Lotus97
Microglia activated by brain inflammation do output quinolinic acid (ref: 1) as well as glutamate. Since both quinolinic acid and glutamate are NMDA receptor agonists, the question arises as to whether quinolinic acid also plays a role in the NMDA receptor over-stimulation presumably caused by glutamate from microglial activation.

However, this study found that:

"QUIN from activated microglia and invading macrophages can increase its extracellular concentration 10-100-fold, the levels that are reached in these conditions remain far below the concentrations of QUIN that are necessary for excessive NMDA receptor activation. However, the possibility that QUIN accumulation may be a deleterious feature of neuroinflammation cannot be ruled out at this stage".

So it seems that there is not enough quinolinic acid being generated by activated microglia to over-stimulate NMDA receptors, and so in this respect, quinolinic acid is not a worry.

Though the interesting study you cited above does say that:

"The two main end-products of the kynurenine pathway bind to NMDA receptors: kynurenic acid is an NMDA receptor antagonist, while quinolinic acid is an NMDA receptor agonist."

"...inflammatory mediators acting on microglia will increase the quinolinic acid to kynurenic acid ratio, leading to net NMDA agonism."

So during microglial activation, I guess it is not just the increase in quinolinic acid that may stimulate NMDA receptors, but also the concomitant decrease in kynurenic acid that lowers the protective kynurenic acid blockade of NMDA receptors. But again, whether this lowering of kynurenic acid is significant enough to have a net over-stimulatory effect on NMDA receptors is another question.


Stephania tetrandra is a new supplement to me. Stephania tetrandra seems to reduce LPS-induced microglial activation (ref: 1).

I collected a list of supplements that reduce microglial activation; these include: vitamin E, wogonin (from Scutellaria baicalensis), silymarin (from milk thistle), genistein, tetracyclines, luteolin, blueberries, fisetin, glucosamine, sesame seed oil, andrographolide (from Andrographis paniculata).

I find that most of these do help reduce brain inflammation a little, and consequently lower my symptoms of anxiety and depression to an extent. But the effects of these supplements I did not find to be very strong, just a mild benefit

One supplement I did find to be very strong as an anti-inflammatory and an anti-anxiety supplement is N-acetylglucosamine. This supplement is discussed a lot in this thread. One theory I have to explain potent anti-anxiety effects of N-acetylglucosamine is that its acetyl molecule simply facilitates transport of glucosamine across the blood-brain barrier (on its own glucosamine, does not really cross the BBB), where it inhibits microglial activation. However, I suspect that N-acetylglucosamine also has other mechanisms of action that underlie its anti-anxiety benefits.

 

[John H Wolfe]

One supplement I did find to be very strong as an anti-inflammatory and an anti-anxiety supplement is N-acetylglucosamine

Hi Hip,

Nice thread. I'm very interested in anything that may inhibit lectin/microglial activation!- do you know of any good places to source the stuff from (I'm UK based)?

Cheers

 

[Hip]

Hi Hip, Nice thread. I'm very interested in anything that may inhibit lectin/microglial activation! do you know of any good places to source the stuff from (I'm UK based)?

I tend to buy supplements on eBay. For N-acetylglucosamine (NAG), the Jarrow Brand seems to be a well priced product. Also available at Amazon in the UK.

If you are willing to wait a few more days for delivery, you can get Jarrow NAG from the US for US$15 (UK£10) including shipping from iHerb.

Flaxseed oil is most cheaply obtained in a large bottle on eBay. Turmeric can be bought very, very cheaply in large bags in Asian grocery stores.

Bulk powders like L-taurine can be bough at a huge discount from bulk powder suppliers like MyProtein or Bulkpowders.

I hope this helps.