Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement
- Thread starter gregh286
- Start date
I've no idea. gregh286's words were "at least it does what it says it should!!!"
Not all users of the product agree with this point of view in their online reviews. That was as far as my assertion went.
While we're at it, perhaps you'd be good enough to point me to where on the no.2 Black website any claim is made about the product's efficacy in treating ME/CFS.
Not all users of the product agree with this point of view in their online reviews. That was as far as my assertion went.
While we're at it, perhaps you'd be good enough to point me to where on the no.2 Black website any claim is made about the product's efficacy in treating ME/CFS.
Whatever. Im made my remarks that are specific to me. Take it as you like. Just trying to help someone else that it may suceed with.
It's a product designed for use by weightlifters for an entirely different purpose than what gregh286, or anybody else suffering from ME/CFS, would use it for. They don't make claims, in regards to treating ME/CFS, because that's not what the product is designed for or the group that it's marketed to.
Both groups may want to boost NO in their systems, which is what the product claims to do, but for very different biological reasons. You can't really compare the needs of the two groups to each other.
You might want to read up on the differing theories about NO, that are proposed by Martin Pall or David Whitlock, to see how it relates to ME/CFS.
Both groups may want to boost NO in their systems, which is what the product claims to do, but for very different biological reasons. You can't really compare the needs of the two groups to each other.
You might want to read up on the differing theories about NO, that are proposed by Martin Pall or David Whitlock, to see how it relates to ME/CFS.
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I've been looking at a DIY lower cost alternative to NO2 Black. (without success)
The nutritional info is given on the following site:
http://uk.bodybuilding.com/store/no2/no2black.html
ACTINOS CFM Nitro P is described as a NOS enhancer while the ALA is there "to promote insulin sensitivity and help support nutrient uptake"
The cost per bottle on the site linked above is £39.23 for 180 caplets (£0.65 per serving) or £67.44 for 300 caplets (£0.67 per serving).
AAKG 1000mg is available for about £10 for 180 capsules:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G1P29L6/
So that works out as £0.17 for the same serving of AAKG.
It isn't clear what the proportion of ALA to ACTINOS is so I'll assume 150mg for each.
You could easily get ALA for about £0.10 per 150mg serving. It's as common as muck, so I won't bother with a link.
This product contains ActiNOS - I couldn't find tablets containing ActiNOS alone and the additional ingredients may cause a problem for some.
https://www.zumbu.com/EN/whey-isola...BP&gcpid=222&gclid=COnHvrOU38sCFUlmGwodzWYGnA
The cost is £37.83 for a kilogram, which contain 28 x 425mg servings of ActiNOS. Converting to the proportions in the NO2 Black gives about 84 servings @ £0.44 per serving.
So the bulk of the cost is in the ActiNOS rather than the AAKG.
I'm considering taking the AAKG on it's own to see if there is any effect. If nothing, I'd buy the ActiNOS at that point to add in.
The nutritional info is given on the following site:
http://uk.bodybuilding.com/store/no2/no2black.html
ACTINOS CFM Nitro P is described as a NOS enhancer while the ALA is there "to promote insulin sensitivity and help support nutrient uptake"
The cost per bottle on the site linked above is £39.23 for 180 caplets (£0.65 per serving) or £67.44 for 300 caplets (£0.67 per serving).
AAKG 1000mg is available for about £10 for 180 capsules:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G1P29L6/
So that works out as £0.17 for the same serving of AAKG.
It isn't clear what the proportion of ALA to ACTINOS is so I'll assume 150mg for each.
You could easily get ALA for about £0.10 per 150mg serving. It's as common as muck, so I won't bother with a link.
This product contains ActiNOS - I couldn't find tablets containing ActiNOS alone and the additional ingredients may cause a problem for some.
https://www.zumbu.com/EN/whey-isola...BP&gcpid=222&gclid=COnHvrOU38sCFUlmGwodzWYGnA
The cost is £37.83 for a kilogram, which contain 28 x 425mg servings of ActiNOS. Converting to the proportions in the NO2 Black gives about 84 servings @ £0.44 per serving.
So the bulk of the cost is in the ActiNOS rather than the AAKG.
I'm considering taking the AAKG on it's own to see if there is any effect. If nothing, I'd buy the ActiNOS at that point to add in.
Yep. Provides me with what seems to be an extended NO boost which alleviates my cfs symptoms. Cant fault it.
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This product contains Arginine alpha-ketoglutarate (AAKG) which is at least in theory not exactly the same as Arginine. What I would be interested in knowing is how this product differs from standard AAKG products that can be bought in most body-building stores for cheaper price. Product label only mentions that it uses some patent-pending technology for increasing NOS (Actinos2). I guess I will be testing both.
They claim it boosts NO in a time released manner. @gregh286 confirms that this is what the product does. It's that simple.
They make no claim regarding ME/CFS but then again 99% of the supplements that I've taken over the years make no claims regarding ME/CFS. That doesn't mean that some of them aren't effective. Magnesium seems to help a lot of us but I've never seen magnesium advertised, by any manufacturer, as benefiting ME/CFS.
Anyway, there is a lot of contradictory information regarding NO and it's effect on those suffering from ME/CFS. There really is no consensus. I'm assuming that, like almost every other intervention, it's going to come down to what subgroup you belong to.
They make no claim regarding ME/CFS but then again 99% of the supplements that I've taken over the years make no claims regarding ME/CFS. That doesn't mean that some of them aren't effective. Magnesium seems to help a lot of us but I've never seen magnesium advertised, by any manufacturer, as benefiting ME/CFS.
Anyway, there is a lot of contradictory information regarding NO and it's effect on those suffering from ME/CFS. There really is no consensus. I'm assuming that, like almost every other intervention, it's going to come down to what subgroup you belong to.
That first study does not suggest taurine can be used to lower blood pressure. In fact it indicates it might have the opposite effect when used over time, especially in females. Read the abstract right through. Here's the salient bit:
I'm very sensitive to every vasodilator I've ever tried, and as far as I can tell taurine has no effect in this regard.
If anyone is interested in trying NO boosters but has problems with BP, I recommend using a norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor like methylphenidate or reboxetine. It's the only way I can tolerate arginine. The other thing one can do is take it right before going to bed.
I'm very sensitive to every vasodilator I've ever tried, and as far as I can tell taurine has no effect in this regard.
If anyone is interested in trying NO boosters but has problems with BP, I recommend using a norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor like methylphenidate or reboxetine. It's the only way I can tolerate arginine. The other thing one can do is take it right before going to bed.
I have no reason to doubt gregh286's improvement in condition. Many of us CFS patients have gone through hundreds of supplements, during the process of which we have become quite trained to notice if a supplement works or not. And since both his improvement and worsening coincided to starting and ending of supplementation, I think it's reasonable to assume this supplement was indeed the cause.
I don't read anywhere where he says NO is definitely the reason behind his improvement. But considering that this supplement is based on Arginine, which is converted to nitric oxide in the body, I would be surprised if his improvement is NOT from nitric oxide modulation. Especially as we know that Fluge & Mella are doing exactly the same thing and it seems to help some patients.
Besides, I don't understand what he is required to prove exactly? This is a patient forum, his claim isn't being published in PubMed.
I don't read anywhere where he says NO is definitely the reason behind his improvement. But considering that this supplement is based on Arginine, which is converted to nitric oxide in the body, I would be surprised if his improvement is NOT from nitric oxide modulation. Especially as we know that Fluge & Mella are doing exactly the same thing and it seems to help some patients.
Besides, I don't understand what he is required to prove exactly? This is a patient forum, his claim isn't being published in PubMed.
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I found this an interesting process in terms of PEM but its seems counterintuitive to me (given Greg's positive experiences) that chronic use of nitrates (specifically nitroglycerin) can impair vasodilation in exercising muscle.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2011.218917/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2011.218917/full
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Looks like you can order them from Amazon.com...
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