Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement

A

Aurator

Senior Member
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625
JPV said:
Where else is there a discussion regarding the usage of this specific product to treat ME/CFS?
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I've no idea. gregh286's words were "at least it does what it says it should!!!"
Not all users of the product agree with this point of view in their online reviews. That was as far as my assertion went.

While we're at it, perhaps you'd be good enough to point me to where on the no.2 Black website any claim is made about the product's efficacy in treating ME/CFS.
 
gregh286

gregh286

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Aurator said:
I've no idea. gregh286's words were "at least it does what it says it should!!!"
Not all users of the product agree with this point of view in their online reviews. That was as far as my assertion went.

While we're at it, perhaps you'd be good enough to point me to where on the no.2 Black website any claim is made about the product's efficacy in treating ME/CFS.
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Whatever. Im made my remarks that are specific to me. Take it as you like. Just trying to help someone else that it may suceed with.
 
JPV

JPV

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858
Aurator said:
Not all users of the product agree with this point of view in their online reviews. That was as far as my assertion went.

While we're at it, perhaps you'd be good enough to point me to where on the no.2 Black website any claim is made about the product's efficacy in treating ME/CFS.
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It's a product designed for use by weightlifters for an entirely different purpose than what gregh286, or anybody else suffering from ME/CFS, would use it for. They don't make claims, in regards to treating ME/CFS, because that's not what the product is designed for or the group that it's marketed to.

Both groups may want to boost NO in their systems, which is what the product claims to do, but for very different biological reasons. You can't really compare the needs of the two groups to each other.

You might want to read up on the differing theories about NO, that are proposed by Martin Pall or David Whitlock, to see how it relates to ME/CFS.
 
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Scarecrow

Scarecrow

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I've been looking at a DIY lower cost alternative to NO2 Black. (without success)

The nutritional info is given on the following site:
http://uk.bodybuilding.com/store/no2/no2black.html
Serving Size 3 Caplets
Servings Per Container100
Amount Per Serving % DV ‡

Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (A-AKG) 3,000 mg **

Proprietary Blend 150 mg **
  • Alpha-Lipoic Acid (Thioctic Acid) **
  • ACTINOS® CFM Nitro® P (Whey Peptide Fraction)
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ACTINOS CFM Nitro P is described as a NOS enhancer while the ALA is there "to promote insulin sensitivity and help support nutrient uptake"

The cost per bottle on the site linked above is £39.23 for 180 caplets (£0.65 per serving) or £67.44 for 300 caplets (£0.67 per serving).

AAKG 1000mg is available for about £10 for 180 capsules:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G1P29L6/
So that works out as £0.17 for the same serving of AAKG.

It isn't clear what the proportion of ALA to ACTINOS is so I'll assume 150mg for each.

You could easily get ALA for about £0.10 per 150mg serving. It's as common as muck, so I won't bother with a link.

This product contains ActiNOS - I couldn't find tablets containing ActiNOS alone and the additional ingredients may cause a problem for some.
https://www.zumbu.com/EN/whey-isola...BP&gcpid=222&gclid=COnHvrOU38sCFUlmGwodzWYGnA

The cost is £37.83 for a kilogram, which contain 28 x 425mg servings of ActiNOS. Converting to the proportions in the NO2 Black gives about 84 servings @ £0.44 per serving.

So the bulk of the cost is in the ActiNOS rather than the AAKG.

I'm considering taking the AAKG on it's own to see if there is any effect. If nothing, I'd buy the ActiNOS at that point to add in.
 
A

Aurator

Senior Member
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625
JPV said:
You can't really compare the needs of the two groups to each other.
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You should be addressing your comments to gregh286, who, in the absence of any claim by the manufacturer about the supplement's efficacy in treating ME/CFS, asserted that "at least it does what it says it should".
 
gregh286

gregh286

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Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Aurator said:
You should be addressing your comments to gregh286, who, in the absence of any claim by the manufacturer about the supplement's efficacy in treating ME/CFS, asserted that "at least it does what it says it should".
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Yep. Provides me with what seems to be an extended NO boost which alleviates my cfs symptoms. Cant fault it.
 
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JES

JES

Senior Member
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1,373
Aurator said:
If you're thinking of giving L-Arginine (nitric oxide) a go, you really don't have to spend as much as these No 2 Black merchants are selling it at; you can get the stuff unbranded from many places on the net for a fraction of the price.

I tried it at a high dose for three months. It had zero effect on my symptoms.
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This product contains Arginine alpha-ketoglutarate (AAKG) which is at least in theory not exactly the same as Arginine. What I would be interested in knowing is how this product differs from standard AAKG products that can be bought in most body-building stores for cheaper price. Product label only mentions that it uses some patent-pending technology for increasing NOS (Actinos2). I guess I will be testing both.
 
JPV

JPV

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Aurator said:
You should be addressing your comments to gregh286, who, in the absence of any claim by the manufacturer about the supplement's efficacy in treating ME/CFS, asserted that "at least it does what it says it should".
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They claim it boosts NO in a time released manner. @gregh286 confirms that this is what the product does. It's that simple.

They make no claim regarding ME/CFS but then again 99% of the supplements that I've taken over the years make no claims regarding ME/CFS. That doesn't mean that some of them aren't effective. Magnesium seems to help a lot of us but I've never seen magnesium advertised, by any manufacturer, as benefiting ME/CFS.

Anyway, there is a lot of contradictory information regarding NO and it's effect on those suffering from ME/CFS. There really is no consensus. I'm assuming that, like almost every other intervention, it's going to come down to what subgroup you belong to.
 
Dufresne

Dufresne

almost there...
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gregh286 said:
Internet littered with taurine effects on vasodilation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392950
http://www.nutri-spec.net/articles/taurine.html
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That first study does not suggest taurine can be used to lower blood pressure. In fact it indicates it might have the opposite effect when used over time, especially in females. Read the abstract right through. Here's the salient bit:
We have previously shown that taurine activates GABA(A)receptors and thus we suggest that the functional implication of GABA(A)receptor activation is the relaxation of the arterial muscularis, vasodilation, and a decrease in blood pressure. Interestingly however, the effects of acute taurine injection were very different than chronic supplementation of taurine. When rats were supplemented taurine (0.05%, 4 weeks) in their drinking water, taurine has significant hypertensive properties. The increase in blood pressure was observed however only in females; males supplemented with taurine did not show an increase in systolic, diastolic, or mean arterial pressure. In both genders however, taurine supplementation caused a significant tachycardia. Thus, we suggest that acute administration of taurine may be beneficial to lowering blood pressure. However, our data indicate that supplementation of taurine to females caused a significant increase in blood pressure. The effect of taurine supplementation on hypertensive rats remains to be seen.
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I'm very sensitive to every vasodilator I've ever tried, and as far as I can tell taurine has no effect in this regard.

If anyone is interested in trying NO boosters but has problems with BP, I recommend using a norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor like methylphenidate or reboxetine. It's the only way I can tolerate arginine. The other thing one can do is take it right before going to bed.
 
A

Aurator

Senior Member
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625
JPV said:
They claim it boosts NO in a time released manner. @gregh286 confirms that this is what the product does. It's that simple.
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gregh286 has presented no proof at all that it boosted NO in him in a time released manner, and, even if he had, he has no proof that this is what brought about the alleviation of his ME/CFS symptoms. It's that simple.
 
JES

JES

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I have no reason to doubt gregh286's improvement in condition. Many of us CFS patients have gone through hundreds of supplements, during the process of which we have become quite trained to notice if a supplement works or not. And since both his improvement and worsening coincided to starting and ending of supplementation, I think it's reasonable to assume this supplement was indeed the cause.

I don't read anywhere where he says NO is definitely the reason behind his improvement. But considering that this supplement is based on Arginine, which is converted to nitric oxide in the body, I would be surprised if his improvement is NOT from nitric oxide modulation. Especially as we know that Fluge & Mella are doing exactly the same thing and it seems to help some patients.

Besides, I don't understand what he is required to prove exactly? This is a patient forum, his claim isn't being published in PubMed.
 
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Marco

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I found this an interesting process in terms of PEM but its seems counterintuitive to me (given Greg's positive experiences) that chronic use of nitrates (specifically nitroglycerin) can impair vasodilation in exercising muscle.

Oxidative stress and enhanced sympathetic vasoconstriction in contracting muscles of nitrate-tolerant rats and humans

Abstract

Non-technical summary Activation of sympathetic nerves decreases blood flow to resting skeletal muscle, but this vasoconstrictor effect normally is blunted during exercise so that blood flow can increase to the working muscles. In rats and humans treated with nitroglycerin for 1 week, we show that overproduction of reactive oxygen species prevents the usual attenuation of sympathetic vasoconstriction in the working muscles, resulting in muscle ischaemia during exercise. Improved knowledge about the effect that reactive oxygen species has on muscle blood flow regulation may help us to better understand the decreased exercise tolerance that occurs with age as well as with chronic disease.
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2011.218917/full
 
JPV

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What are the symptoms of Nitric oxide deficiency?

Symptoms of Nitric Oxide Deficiency can be difficult to discern. Most people feel fatigue, burnt out, or tired by 2-3pm. These people are usually hard workers, and they have pushed themselves to exhaustion by utilizing all of their Nitric oxide stores. Many people may not even realize they are experiencing the effects of Nitric oxide deficiency because it has dwindled slowly over time, and they think this is how they “usually feel.” Some people think they are getting older and that they do not have energy like they used to. If you are experiencing any of the following symptoms, it is time to check your Nitric oxide levels:
  • Fatigue or low energy levels
  • – Decreased workout potential
  • – Less energy at the gym
  • – Less stamina / endurance
  • – Erectile dysfunction or Decreased libido
  • – Poor Memory or Concentration
  • – Irritability, Depression, or Anxiety
  • – Insomnia or Difficulty sleeping
  • – High blood pressure
  • – Decreased heart function
  • – Asthma or poor lung function
  • – Thin bones
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S

Sasha

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AUSFP said:
If you are experiencing any of the following symptoms, it is time to check your Nitric oxide levels:
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You can check your levels? Shouldn't that be the first step of anyone considering this (since I'm not convinced this is a safe intervention for everyone)?
 
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