Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[Gondwanaland]

SSRIs prevent serotonin from being sucked back up into the neurons. They make serotonin available in the synapse for a longer period of time, so if one's serotonin is really low (and it will be low or become low if methylation is poor or cofactors for production are lacking), I think it's possible an SSRI wouldn't work very well. It's also possible serotonin receptors might be downregulated, but I'm definitely not an SSRI expert. (I've been through this in the past, an initial good response to antidepressants followed by loss of efficacy.)

In my case, I realized that I couldn't make enough serotonin without T3. When I started on LT4, I had to start a SSRI as well (which helped just a little). Then a couple of months later when I started taking T3, I was able to drop the SSRI.

Now, while I agree with the nutrient issue you described, I am now realizing that my liver is shutting down my endocrine system due to lowered capacity of hormone breakdown and lowered antioxidant power.

 

[SherDa]

In my case, I realized that I couldn't make enough serotonin without T3. When I started on LT4, I had to start a SSRI as well (which helped just a little). Then a couple of months later when I started taking T3, I was able to drop the SSRI.

Now, while I agree with the nutrient issue you described, I am now realizing that my liver is shutting down my endocrine system due to lowered capacity of hormone breakdown and lowered antioxidant power.

Thanks for sharing this. I'll have to look more into the connections between serotonin and thyroid.

The higher levels of hormones are resulting in negative feedback on your endocrine system? I'm impressed with peoples' abilities to nail down the causes of their issues but also sad that we have to.

 

[Gondwanaland]

The higher levels of hormones are resulting in negative feedback on your endocrine system?

Replacement hormone therapy seems to be contributing to increased inflammation and increased need for antioxidants. Of course dietary choices play a role as well.

I'm impressed with peoples' abilities to nail down the causes of their issues but also sad that we have to.

Yes, well, no dr. can put it all together anyway.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I have experienced polyuria the entire time I've been sick with ME/CFS.
This thread mentions how polyuria could exacerbate problems with mitochondrial energy production.

"Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!), ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled.

This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine."

Miyarisan, (Clostridium butyricum MIYAIRI 588 strain), has eliminated polyuria for me.

I'm curious about how much this may account for the benefits of Miyarisan.

 

[MAF14]

I dont have anything useful to add but I just made it throught the thread and am expecting my Miyarisan tomorrow or Tuesday, I believe. I'll be sure to post my experience with it.

 

[SherDa]

Replacement hormone therapy seems to be contributing to increased inflammation and increased need for antioxidants. Of course dietary choices play a role as well.

Yes, well, no dr. can put it all together anyway.

I agree no doctor can put it all together. I think it's a bad idea to outsource most of my healthcare to someone who can't really know me that well anyway.

But I think it is sad that we have to figure out how to manage our health because we have departed from eating real food, spending time in the sun and dirt, etc. Now, we must fight our way out of these "diseases of civilization" that never should have existed.

 

[MAF14]

I dont have anything useful to add but I just made it throught the thread and am expecting my Miyarisan tomorrow or Tuesday, I believe. I'll be sure to post my experience with it.

I just got my bottle and popped 10. I should note I've never had any type of Herx reaction so I don't think I'm sensitive to these types of things.

 

[MAF14]

I can't directly attribute it to the CB as I've also recently started taking an Rx antifungal but did anyone else notice immediately more gas from starting CB?

 

[actup]

@MAF14, from what I've read and experienced, increased gas is normal for the 1st week or so after starting clostridium butyricum. I've started cb two times within last eight months( three weeks off for surgery). Both times I noted increased gas and rumbling sounds for 7-8 days after which these issues completely resolved. Crashes are now less severe and stamina better. Also no more thrush.

I did not notice any improvement in my orthostatic intolerance though. Recently started midodrine for that problem and it's very helpful. Cb is by far the best probiotic I've used and it's so much cheaper than most on the market. Best of luck sorting it all out- at the end of the day we're all guinea pigs ;-/

 

[lch1]

I'm skeptical about foreign products. Has anyone tried Clostridium butyricum Miyairii from Amazon with no problems (other than normal probiotic reactions)? Thanks much-

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I'm skeptical about foreign products. Has anyone tried Clostridium butyricum Miyairii from Amazon with no problems (other than normal probiotic reactions)? Thanks much-

I have been taking it successfully for over a year.

It is made in Japan, and has a 40+ year record of safe use.

However, if your are uncomfortable there is a possible alternative.

http://www.iherb.com/advanced-ortho...tic-formula-90-veggie-caps/43463?rcode=fsg653

But please understand this is a different organism than C. butyricum MIYAIRI 588.

You may not get the same positive results as those of us who've been taking Miyarisan.

It's 57 pages now, so it will take some time, but I think I remember someone trying the AOR-3.

 

[outdamnspot]

I have been taking it successfully for over a year.

It is made in Japan, and has a 40+ year record of safe use.

However, if your are uncomfortable there is a possible alternative.

http://www.iherb.com/advanced-ortho...tic-formula-90-veggie-caps/43463?rcode=fsg653

But please understand this is a different organism than C. butyricum MIYAIRI 588.

You may not get the same positive results as those of us who've been taking Miyarisan.

It's 57 pages now, so it will take some time, but I think I remember someone trying the AOR-3.

What improvements have you seen from Miyarisan?

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

What improvements have you seen from Miyarisan?

Adreno stated them quite well at the beginning of this thread

I believe I have seen great improvements with clostridium butyric (CB), though who can tell if it will last. In particular, it has helped greatly with OI, malaise, mood, brain fog and fatigue. I feel overall less sick and more like a normal person. They are without doubt the most effective probiotics I have tried, including PA.

I have had some additional benefits

In addition to the previously mentioned benefits, I have experienced a nearly complete cessation of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity with Miyarisan supplementation.

Miyarisan, (Clostridium butyricum MIYAIRI 588 strain), has eliminated polyuria for me.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I can't directly attribute it to the CB as I've also recently started taking an Rx antifungal but did anyone else notice immediately more gas from starting CB?

Ohh yes!!

I fact, I would caution you to go slow. I have experienced some rather painful episodes that were "worrisome" to say the least.

You mentioned taking 10 tablets, I assume that's regular Miyarisan, I have Strong Miyarisan and the recommended dosage is 9 tablets a day. However, that is for a rather different usage than this.

I started on 6 tablets a day and was very excited about the benefits, which isn't easy after years of being sick and let down by every hope I've had. But after the first month I began having negative consequences to this dose and tried to back off. This was difficult because stopping entirely hurt worse and continuing to take it hurt as well.

I eventually went with a more patient approach. For 9 months I took only a tablet a day with some benefit. Now I take 4 a day without any great difficulty and more benefit.

This is no easy solution, but it can be helpful.

 

[MAF14]

Ohh yes!!

I fact, I would caution you to go slow. I have experienced some rather painful episodes that were "worrisome" to say the least.

You mentioned taking 10 tablets, I assume that's regular Miyarisan, I have Strong Miyarisan and the recommended dosage is 9 tablets a day. However, that is for a rather different usage than this.

I started on 6 tablets a day and was very excited about the benefits, which isn't easy after years of being sick and let down by every hope I've had. But after the first month I began having negative consequences to this dose and tried to back off. This was difficult because stopping entirely hurt worse and continuing to take it hurt as well.

I eventually went with a more patient approach. For 9 months I took only a tablet a day with some benefit. Now I take 4 a day without any great difficulty and more benefit.

This is no easy solution, but it can be help.

Yep, I have the regular Miyarisan (the 630 tablet bottle). I noticed if I take it with RS or take them after eating eggs the gas is MUCH more evident.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Yep, I have the regular Miyarisan (the 630 tablet bottle). I noticed if I take it with RS or take them after eating eggs the gas is MUCH more evident.

Before taking this probiotic, I wasn't aware of the fact that I had spent years developing eating habits that favored a more stable stomach. I must have been learning this without much conscious attention.

Miyarisan has changed the environment of my gut, and forced me to become more aware of how what I consume effects that environment.

Now, If I am tempted to eat something because I am bored or depressed, I think instead of how what I eat will effect a microbial change in my gut.

I wish you luck with this.

 

[heyitisjustin]

That is very interesting, JPV. Me too am used to have cloudy - and acidic - urine at my worst moments, and that is precisely when sodium bicarbonate baths help. Thanks for calling my attention to that!

Why do sodium bicarbonate baths lower oxalates? How can you tell if cloudy urine is from oxalates? I assumed mine was from protein digestion problems.

Can you actually see cloudy urine (or otherwise notice oxalate issues) on your own? I only know about my cloudy urine from the rare occasion when I get a urine test.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Why do sodium bicarbonate baths lower oxalates?

Sodium bicarbonate, by its alkalizing action, help the kidneys to get rid of acidic urate and oxalate.

I assumed mine was from protein digestion problems.

In that case it would be uric acid

Can you actually see cloudy urine (or otherwise notice oxalate issues) on your own? I only know about my cloudy urine from the rare occasion when I get a urine test

My 1st sign of oxalate problems is stinging pain in my corneas, like if there was a grain of sand in the eyes.

Oxalate and urate are synergists, oxalates can nucleate urate crystallization. These crystals get deposited in many organs, and WBCs phagocyte them. I assume this could trigger autoimmune attacks.

To stick to the topic of butyrate,

2016 Intestinal Microbiota Distinguish Gout Patients from Healthy Humans
"The established reference microbial gene catalogue for gout revealed disorder in purine degradation and butyric acid biosynthesis in gout patients"

 

[Asklipia]

I have added a new thread with my latest discoveries!
Be well!
Asklipia

 

[heyitisjustin]

No, I haven't. There's also lot of other reasons it could be happening, including cortisol/adrenal problems and blood sugar problems, and I've licked the problem before by getting my blood sugar and general health under control. Getting checked for apnea will be my course of last resort since I don't think I wpuld be able to tolerate a CPAP.

Are you sure you don't have myasthenia gravis? Not to alarm you or anything, but my co-worker developed it after a surgery a few years back, and she's had apnea and been using a CPAP for years before the diagnosis. A timely diagnosis might have saved her some trouble and alleviated some progression of the disease.

It may be worth checking into sleep apnea just in case as it can cause major problems and is treatable. That being said many things can cause lighter sleep which could cause frequent urination. Personally I was diagnosed with sleep apnea (most of the times I was tested), but didn't get enough benefit to be compliant. It seems like the main cause of my sleep issues was dysbiosis (my sleep seems much better now untreated). On the other hand, people who do have sleep apnea get such a benefit from CPAP that many of them are compliant. Additionally there are jaw advancing devices that are alternatives. As is sleep positioning and weight loss.

Do you snore? Are you overweight? Do you fall asleep during normal activities? Do you fall asleep easily? Those would be decent pointers towards apnea.