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Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

Scarecrow

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
Messages
1,904
Location
Scotland
Gondwanaland said:
Unfortunately I could not understand what the relationship between GABA and butyrate is from reading that abstract.
Click to expand...
The physiology is beyond me and no-one answered my plea on the other thread but....

They administered radioactively labelled gamma-Hydroxybutyrate to rats by intraperitoneal injection (into the body cavity rather than a blood vessel). 160 minutes later, radioactivity was detected in GABA, glutamate, and glycine in various parts of the rats brains.

It appears that butyric acid is a precursor of hydroxybutyric acids (according to wiki) but I haven't been able to discover the metabolic pathway.
 
K

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,864
Location
Brisbane, Australia
For the benefit of those looking into this who only have G.I. issues to deal with (albeit a bit complicated, I have Gastroparesis, SIBO, CIPO and Non-occlusive Mesenteric Ischemia) I've been struggling for 12 months to find something to help me with vomiting which has reached the point again where it happens after eating every meal regardless of the size of the meal.

I can't tolerate many things, especially probiotics, so I was resigned to having to resort to a Fecal Transplant to get the gut back in balance but bought some Miyarisan anyway and have been giving it to my poo donor for a couple of weeks now to boost their butyrate function.

Long story short, I read the other day that one of the first functions restored in the bowel from FMT is improved butyrate production so figured I have nothing to lose by trying it myself. That was Tuesday morning, I am taking one twice a day since then and haven't vomited once since starting it. As a bonus, both the intended poo donor and myself both have less smelly number 2's.

I'm a convert.
 
J

JAGuy

Messages
50
I just took my first Miyarisan about 30 minutes ago. Wish me luck. I tried probiotics and resistant starch a few days ago, and experienced constipation. I took the probiotics and resistant starch 30 minutes to 60 minutes apart. Perhaps, I should take the probiotics in the AM and the resistant starch late in the PM. Maybe I should give the probiotics a chance to get settle and die out a bit.
 
J

JAGuy

Messages
50
For those people who experience constipation while on Miyarisan, how does your body react to normal butyrate supplements? I know it is not the same thing as taking a probiotic, but I wonder...
 
O

Oci

Senior Member
Messages
261
Basilico said:
I also think that eliminating or at least reducing pathogenic bacteria and yeasts and fungi are really important. As you said, the problem is how to do it without digging the grave deeper. My husband did a round of Rifaximin, which is commonly prescribed to people who get traveler's diarrhea and is also widely used to treat SIBO; it is generally well tolerated and even though we are both wary of taking antibiotics, this seemed like the best way to deal with his worsening SIBO/IBS symptoms. It really wrecked his GI system and took a solid year to get back to a functional level.

We couldn't make sense of his reaction until recently he came across some information about a very important gut bacteria called E. Coli Nissle 1917 (the good E. Coli) which happens to get killed by Rifaximin. In people who have normal levels of this E. Coli, killing off some should eventually result in a repopulation, no problem. But in people who have significantly lower level of this E. Coli to begin with, killing off the few remaining bugs is disaster.

As a result of this experience, we are both really concerned about taking more antibiotics to get rid of pathogenic bacteria, because it's impossible to know which good ones are taken out with them, never to return again. I'm interested in knowing more about your experience with Flagyl, and whether you took other antibiotics or antifungals. Did you have any die-off symptoms? How long did you take it? In what ways did you repopulation afterward?

I haven't really seen anyone on this thread mentioning supplementing with E. Coli Nissile 1917 (found in the probiotic brand name Mutaflor, from Germany). This particular strain seems to be the C.B. of the E. Coli world, and is responsible for all sorts of things, like producing K2 and B12 among other things. We ordered it in the U.S. from a pharmacy in Canada. I highly recommend that folks on this thread at least look into it, if you haven't already.
Click to expand...

I am considering ordering Mutaflor and wonder what your experience with it was. I tested low for e coli on the DD CDA test. I test 2+ for candida and 4+ for enterobacter cloacae and so am working on gut balance. Clostridium was 4+ but in the beneficial column.
 
J

JAGuy

Messages
50
Soooooooo, I finally read this entire thread. Soooooooo, Miyarisan is not going to colonize my gut permanently? I guess it is a "feel good" band-aid fix that will not burn my guts like supplemental butyrate, but will constipate me. Hard decisions for me to make, :(.
 
rebar

rebar

Senior Member
Messages
136
I have been on C. butyricum for a little over a month. I tolerate 5 tabs (low dose). three in the morning and two
with dinner. I started C.B. immediately after a months course of neomycin for SIBO-C. My constipation was
pretty severe. My regularity is improving and I am now close to normal. During this time I have started the prefect health diet and supplemente with Bob's potato starch and cold rice and potatoes. (I'm not strict on the diet).
My digestive system continues to improve. Other things I do are chia seeds with cocavia, whole milk and potato starch. I also add a single strain probiotic, align or protectis alternating these by the week. CB did not constipate me but was a part of me regaining gut motility.
 
S

skwag

Senior Member
Messages
222
@adreno

I apologize in advance if this has been asked before. This is in regards to the improvement in your OI symptoms. Did you have POTS type symptoms? If so, did your standing heart rate actually decrease after CB, or did the other associated symptoms just lessen?
 
K

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,864
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Like some others, I'm having trouble with constipation on 2 tabs of the low strength Miyarisan which significantly affects my pain level because of the slower transit times of everything through the G.I. tract. Cutting back to 1 a day is not enough to stop me vomiting either so I'm giving it a miss for now.

Constipation is contrary to the findings of many study papers that say CB increases colonic motility. I would hazard a guess that when the G.I. system is more severely compromised, some people are also lacking in a combination of other beneficial butyrate producing species that contributes to colonic motility, the likes of which can be re-populated with FMT treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284325/
 
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