Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[JPV]

Martin Pall came to endorse FIR saunas for reducing oxidative stress.

In this case, I'd be doing it to give the AO+ Mist bacteria some sweat/ammonia to consume. But maybe there'd be a dual benefit.

 

[Sleeping Beauty]

@JPV if you also have POTS, sauna is a bad idea.

 

[JPV]

@JPV if you also have POTS, sauna is a bad idea.

I don't seem to suffer from the most common POTS symptoms, such as lightheadedness and fainting, but looking at the DINETS reference page I do have a lot of the other symptoms. They seem to be particularly severe if I consume inflammatory foods.

 

[mariovitali]

Hmmm... I'm positive that inflammation is a big issue for me. I tend to get chest pains if I eat highly inflammatory foods such as Wheat, Sugar, Corn and Vegetable Oils. I also have RLS which is generally seen as an inflammatory condition. But no matter how clean of a diet I try to maintain, some symptoms still persist. It seems deeply rooted and hard to rectify, in my case at least.

Do you have any other anti-inflammatory suggestions?

Quite possibly you are either low in Dopamine and/or Iron. Most probably Low Dopamine is the culprit. RLS was one of my symptoms

 

[JPV]

So how are you feeling?

Ok, so far I can say that it works exceptionally well as a deodorant. We'll see what else it has to offer over the next few days.

 

[alicec]

I decided to take acidophilus after delving into the oxalate universe. Both acidophilus and bifidum are said to lower oxalates. It worked

@Gondwanaland I've attached two documents from the trying low oxalates group which show a limited range of probiotics that have been tested for oxalate digesting capacity. The ubiquitous VSL-3 was one found to do the job and is the one recommended by the group. I found another one, Theralac, which wasn't tested but does have one of the acidophilus strains and two of the B. lactis. I tried it but had a few problems that may or may not have been related to the probiotic preparation so it went back into the fridge and I haven't tried it again.

I took VSL 3 for years - can't say for sure that it helped the oxalate situation though I presume it did since it appears that there is some kind of signalling from the gut about the presence of appropriate oxalate digesting bacteria that is necessary before oxalate is dumped - and I have certainly had plenty of oxalate dumping.

I stopped taking it at the end of March in preparation for the uBiome test and decided not to start again at least for a while. I didn't notice anything in particular afterwards though I have to say now that in general I feel I have gone backwards in the last month. Many, many things could be involved but oxalate build up is one possibility. I'm still floundering around trying to decide where to go next.

CB produces vit K2 in the gut, which directs calcium to the bones. We have large calcium oxalate deposits in soft tissues, and the calcium (bound to oxalate) mobilization causes mucosal irritation and joint pain flares.

Bone itself is a major site for storage of oxalate crystals. Not sure where this fits in with vit K2 but mobilisation of oxalate from bone would certainly be a reason for joint pain flares.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Ok, so far I can say that it works exceptionally well as a deodorant. We'll see what else it has to offer over the next few days.

The secret ingredient is….

Magnesium Oil!

 

[whodathunkit]

So one of my beloved dogs has this absolutely nasty habit of eating stuff he finds on the ground, including (and possibly preferentially) cat poop. It's been impossible to prevent him from doing this, as I'd have to glue my attention exclusively onto him the whole time we're out, even when he's on the leash. If there's something "tasty" around he'll wait until my attention is elsewhere and snatch! Just like a little kid going after the cookie jar. He's good at it, so most of the time I don't see him do it. And unfortunately there are a lot of feral cats in my neighborhood, and people frequently throw food (not just bread and nuts, but other kinds of food ) out to "feed the birds and squirrels", etc. So it's been an ongoing problem through the years.

Whenever he gets a hold of a particularly "toxic pile" he gets diarrhea and other bad symptoms. He apparently got into something really bad on Monday or Tuesday a.m....I came home from work to poop in the house on Tuesday night, and despite a large dose of immodium he woke me up that later that night with a nice little present in my bedroom floor.

Since the c.butyricum has a good reputation as a remedy against diarrhea from c.diff, I decided to try it on him after he woke me up in the night. The "dog probiotics" I give them have a lot of lactobaccilli strains in them and don't seem to do squat (no pun intended) for times like those.

I gave him a cap of AOR3 after I cleaned up the mess, before we went back to bed. That helped a lot, but things were still not quite normal when I walked them after getting up to start the day.

So that morning with his breakfast I gave him a Miyarisin tab, a multi-strain bifido capsule, some gelatin powder, and a teaspoon of potato starch with his food.

Worked like a charm! Things firmed up very nicely, very quickly. We've not looked back.

So now I'm giving both my dogs the c.butyrium, PrescriptAssist, etc., and a lot of the same gut gut fibers I'm taking, albeit at lower doses and less frequently (like every other day instead of daily). I'm not giving them *all* the crazy fiber like LAB, but they're getting resistant starches, gelatin, and inulin, little bit of MCP, etc. Stuff I know is not toxic to dogs.

Interestingly, this seems to have lessened his interest considerably in stuff that's laying around on the ground. Been watching him closely since Wednesday morning and he hasn't tried to eat anything yet. I've read that a dog that exhibits persistent coprophagia is usually trying to get gut bacteria he's missing, so maybe this will do the trick for my guy. He was a rescue so there's no telling what he was fed or what kinds of antibiotics he had before he came to me. I myself used to give him metaclopromide whenever he got the runs, which I'm sure didn't help his system. I've had him on dog probitiocs sporadically over the years, but except for one brand that I can't get any longer, none of them seemed to do much. Hopefully this course of action will help us resolve this nasty problem entirely. Wish I'd started doing it long ago.

Posting here because: c.butyricum to the rescue!

 

[LivingwithFibro]

This is one exciting thread!
I have gut dysbiosis and haven't experimented much with probiotics except with sauerkraut (which is hard to make since I live in a tropical climate)

It'll be really fun to see how you folks do on CB in the long-term

 

[jstefl]

I have started on Miyarisan also. I ordered mine through amazon on May 10th and received it may 26th.

Fortunately, I ordered the smaller size tablets. I am starting slowly, with one tablet per day. I have been taking prebiotics for nearly a year and a half now, but I am noticing definite changes with the CB. It has only been 5 days, so it is really premature to speculate on any results yet, but I have noticed symptoms in line with those that others have reported.

I will report once I have been taking it long enough to form some opinions on how effective this is for me.

John

 

[Sidereal]

In this case, I'd be doing it to give the AO+ Mist bacteria some sweat/ammonia to consume. But maybe there'd be a dual benefit.

I'd be curious to try this but they only ship to the US and Canada and it's eye-wateringly expensive.

 

[Gondwanaland]

For those like me struggling with LAG (I have given up)

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders/

 

[Gondwanaland]

B2 supplementation would make me have depression at sunset. I think it is hematopoiesis time, and I was low in copper and manganese.

 

[Sidereal]

For those like me struggling with LAG (I have given up)

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders/

Bloody oxalate. Everything on that list causes pure hell for me: ascorbate, arabinose, gelatin, glycine. I don't suppose it's ever going to be as simple as adding some B6? Pyridoxine 5 mg gave me neuropathy in the past.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Bloody oxalate. Everything on that list causes pure hell for me: ascorbate, arabinose, gelatin, glycine. I don't suppose it's ever going to be as simple as adding some B6? Pyridoxine 5 mg gave me neuropathy in the past.

What about the alanine in there?

 

[Sidereal]

What about the alanine in there?

Never tried it in isolation, if that's what you're asking?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Never tried it in isolation, if that's what you're asking?

Would it help? I found it recommended somewhere for oxalate issues. Beta-Alanine

 

[Sidereal]

Would it help? I found it recommended somewhere for oxalate issues. Beta-Alanine

No idea. @alicec, any thoughts?

 

[alicec]

The alanine in the diagram refers to the enzyme alanine glyoxalate aminotransferase (AGT). This is the lynchpin of the whole system - in normal circumstances it leads oxalate down a harmless path but when it starts to fail (because of, for example, chronic oxidative stress) it ultimately leads to endogenous oxalate production which sets in train a whole series of metabolic derangements.

AGT is B6 dependant so the strategy to overcome problems with the enzyme relies on high doses of B6 to try to boost activity. If oxalates are a problem, then introducing B6 can stimulate oxalate dumping from stores and this can be very uncomfortable. It is one reason at least why B6 can cause difficulties. The solution is to introduce very slowly in very small amounts and build up slowly so dumping is manageable.

Beta-alanine (not alpha-alanine, the amino acid found in our proteins) is sometimes recommended to deal with oxalates because it forms an insoluble crystal with oxalate thus removing it, much as calcium or magnesium salts with meals are recommended to help remove oxalates in food.

 

[Sidereal]

@alicec, super informative, thanks. What sorts of things apart from VSL3 have you found useful for the oxalate issue? It's interesting that acidophilus is recommended. Out of all probiotics, it's the one I can least tolerate. It has always given me what @adreno and I tend to refer to as lactate hell. It's the same reaction I get from glycine/DMG supplements so perhaps this indicates that oxalates were being mobilised from tissue. It sure felt like being stabbed with shards of glass lol.