CFS turned my spiritual life, and my church world, upside down

[Martlet]

Jody

Thanks for those quotes.

They don't seem to be saying that there is no Hell. Instead, they appear to be speaking of the great mercy wrought by Jesus.

A lot more recently, Cardinal Cormac Murphy OConnor spoke of Catholic teaching.

Were not bound to believe that anybodys there (in hell), lets face it I cannot think of heaven without thinking of being in communion with all the saints and with all the people I've loved on this earth.

http://www.romancatholicism.org/cormac-apokatastasis.htm

 

[Jody]

Martlet,

I'll see what else I can dig up.

 

[richvank]

to Martlet

Hi, Martlet.

I think this is a remarkable story, both because of the healing and because of your wish to continue sharing in the suffering of others. I'm glad I am here to be able to read it! I think you have really gotten hold of what being a Christian is supposed to be all about. Thank you for sharing that!

Rich


"After four years of illness, when I had been on the Florinef trial and was now reduced to skin and bone, we attended a Mass for healing. Not my first one, I hasten to add. I went to bed for three days beforehand, so I would be able to make it, then on the day itself, spent ages applying make-up. Then I refused the wheelchair, walking in on my husband's arm. I wanted no charismatic priest picking on me because I was in a chair! But he picked on me anyway. Twice. That night, I soared. I ran around the church, no pain, no fatigue, nothing.

"Okay, you may be saying, why am I here? Well, I joined a healing ministry under the wing of our archdiocese but after several months of working within it, I realised that I had forgotten what it was like to be chronically sick and I prayed. I asked for some of it back because I did not want to forget what people go through, day in and day out. That was thirteen years ago and since then I have had my share of problems, but instead of operating at less than 10% I now normally operate at around 80% except on rare occasions - like now - when I get dipped back in for a jolly good reminder. And it was that reminder that brought me here."

 

[Tammie]

Countrygirl, Teejkay, & anyone else who read thru my little book of a post.....thank you for reading and responding.....I appreciate your responses a lot.....I am not managing to write much in response to your responses rt now, bc I am now seriously crashing (I think I overdid it a bit in writing all that I did yesterday!), but I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate what you had to say

I also still need to get caught up with the rest of this thread....am enjoying hearing what everyone has to say about their own journeys

 

[Martlet]

I think this is a remarkable story, both because of the healing and because of your wish to continue sharing in the suffering of others. I'm glad I am here to be able to read it! I think you have really gotten hold of what being a Christian is supposed to be all about. Thank you for sharing that!

I'm glad it touched you, but really, I haven't grasped Christianity quiet yet. It's a work in progress. Long, slow, two steps forward and one step back progress. Or is it the other way round?

 

[Countrygirl]

Perhaps I shouldn't share this.....

I was immediately and totally well.

That is wonderful! I've heard of this happening a number of times. I, too, experienced the same in a similar situation to you, but that involved a chronic, rather serious lung disease. The most extraordinary thing is that after this amazing instant healing, and a return to health after 7 years of needing physiotherapy most days just to be able to keep working, I developed M.E. I would gladly switch back to the lung disease if I had a choice! I've never been able to make sense of this. After a period of many months one disease was seemingly exchanged for a far worse one. It remains a mystery.

I must admit, I felt a bit silly posting it here. Until now, only that particular priest and my very closest friends know about it. Well, unless you count my doctor.

I know just what you mean, and I rarely share such information because there have many false claims of healing, which I want to steer well clear of. Also it is outside of many peoples' experience and if it hadn't happened to me, I have to admit I woud be very sceptical - to say the least! In fact, I am hesitating in posting this! It is very personal and might be alien to the beliefs of many. But, as you found the courage so shall I....(Gulp!)

Thanks for your encouraging post.

Best wishes,

C.G.

 

[brenda]

Martlet

I am so pleased for you that you were healed and think it is wonderful that you were willing to suffer for the sake of others. It is a remarkable story.

Jody

I really would love to believe that no-one is to be lost, but the idea does not match the words of Jesus for example in the parable of the ten virgins Matthew 25. Verily I say unto you - I know you notThere would be no need for all of the warnings in scripture either, and I found this showing that the church fathers indeed taught hell

enterprise.the-rising-tide.org/.../WhatDidtheEarlyChurchFathersBelieveAboutHell.doc

sorry I don't know how to put that link on - try googling - church fathers hell

 

[RestingInHim]

New Year prayer & hopes...

it doesn't pay to skip a day on this thread...i am SO BEHIND!...but i want to stay ih this conversation. it is incredible!! gotta thank Jody again for starting it. you have really struck a cord in many of us.

i'm finding i get on the forums more when i'm down for the count. spent 3 days in bed. today...tried not to make up for lost time. so...hope to catch up with this thread over the next few days.

i pray 2010 is the year of greater discoveries in the cfs world...and that those outside gain insight into their lives from us, who have been entrusted with illness.

thanks to all!

 

[RestingInHim]

gotta add one thing...

when i get confused by all those who have taught, interpreted, commented on Christianity over the millenia i am reminded that the only words that really matter are Christ's...and we have those preserved perfectly for us in the Gospels. Thank God!

 

[CJB]

From Deepak Chopra "The Third Jesus"

Its impossible to quantify if you are on the spiritual path or how far along it you may be. But progress is always marked by transformation. The path isnt about feeling better. Its not about knowing who you are, or ending your suffering, or finding peace, or healing your deepest wounds. Its about a transformation so profound that illusion is traded for reality. Jesus survives to this day as a force in the world because he embodied that truth completely. As we are headed for God-consciousness, our own transformation cannot stop halfway; we cant settle for a better life or even the best life, for a glimpse of God, or even for God as a daily companion. The state of God-consciousness represents a leap in human development that you and I must be prepared to make personally. The middle of the path brings us to the leaping-off point. The end of the journey will look nothing like the world we took the leap from.

What will it feel like to finally arrive in God-consciousness? Anyone traveling the spiritual path will naturally ask this question. The middle of the journey isnt the same as the destination.

 

[Carter Burke]

Jody

I really would love to believe that no-one is to be lost, but the idea does not match the words of Jesus for example in the parable of the ten virgins Matthew 25. Verily I say unto you - I know you notThere would be no need for all of the warnings in scripture either, and I found this showing that the church fathers indeed taught hell

enterprise.the-rising-tide.org/.../WhatDidtheEarlyChurchFathersBelieveAboutHell.doc

sorry I don't know how to put that link on - try googling - church fathers hell

This might be interesting: there are four different words which get translated "Hell" in the King James Bible: Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus and Hades.

The few passages we'd recognize as describing Hell in the New Testament refer to Gehenna.

The thing is, no matter what spin people put on it (and there's a LOT of spin on this out there), Gehenna referred to an actual physical place: The Valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem.

In this place, rubbish was incinerated on great fires and the bodies of criminals usually wound up there too... Burning fires? A place where the evil-doers wind up burning? An analogy perhaps? Well if you read it in context it really just seems to be describing The Valley of Hinnom as an unfortunate place to end up - after all, there's no mention of an afterlife "Hell" being like this anywhere, in fact there's barely any mention of one at all in the NT...

Much of what Christ said actually concerned Jewish politics. Many of the parables we take as being moral lessons were actually attacks on certain Jewish attitudes in the time. The Bible was very selectively pieced together, and then translated so as to lose most of the implied meanings and context.

 

[brenda]

There are many Jesus's but only one true one, who lives today in those who come to Him knowing they are sinners.

He promises peace and healed wounds but they must be experienced personally. He does not promise the cessation of suffering as He was our example of growth through it, but yes we do know where we are going, whether we are on the path and far we have travelled thanks to St John of the Cross it is clear for those who walk this way. But yes, union with Him transforms radically.

 

[Martlet]

I, too, experienced the same in a similar situation to you, but that involved a chronic, rather serious lung disease. The most extraordinary thing is that after this amazing instant healing, and a return to health after 7 years of needing physiotherapy most days just to be able to keep working, I developed M.E.

Oh my goodness, you poor thing. I hope it hasn't affected your faith?

there have many false claims of healing, which I want to steer well clear of.

Yes. Once, I needed a CAT scan on my hip. My doctor said he thought that what had shown up on x-ray was a bone spur, but since the radiologist had raised some concern, they had to take a look at it. Well, I asked for prayer as that is always my first recourse. It did turn out to be a bone spur but then came this most strange conversation with one of my friends that went something like this:

"So the Lord turned the cancer into a bone spur?"

"No! It was always a bone spur. That's what the doctor thought from the beginning."

"Well why don't you tell people that it was a tumour and that God healed it?"

"Because it would be a lie."

"But it would increase people's faith."

"In what? A lie? And what happens to their faith when they learn the truth?"

Also it is outside of many peoples' experience and if it hadn't happened to me, I have to admit I woud be very sceptical - to say the least!

I understand that. In ministry, I saw a few real physical healings but most were inner healing --- which is just as valuable if it puts you at peace with yourself, your fellow Man and with God.

In fact, I am hesitating in posting this! It is very personal and might be alien to the beliefs of many. But, as you found the courage so shall I....(Gulp!)

I've never had a problem talking about the healing, but what I haven't generally shared is that I wanted a bit back. And not because I'm holy or good, or because I like to suffer, but because I wanted to be in solidarity.

Thanks for your encouraging post.

Someone with ME told me that she had prayed every day for God to heal her, but that she had then stopped asking for healing because she decided it was His will that she should suffer. I told her, "No, no! Each morning, pray for healing and then each night, if you are still sick, just know that it was God's will for you for that one day. Then do it the next, and the next."

Have you put your name on the prayer list thread?

 

[Holmsey]

teejkay, re.why can't you smile when you're at work?

I work in an open plan office and it's a bit of a give away that you're not knee deep in code, you don't see many smiling programmers, not where I work at any rate.

 

[Holmsey]

Thanks again for everything you are saying about spirit and God.

With so much time, in the solitude, I listen and hear whispers and sense a flow to the world through us, around us and beyond us.

If there is a blessing from ME/CFS, perhaps it is time and permission to listen in the quiet for the truth. It is there.

Wishes for 2010
Jackie in Sacramento

Hi Jackie,
I'm not going to pretend to know if there's reason or ryme to the circumstances we find ourselves in but what you say above resonates well within my heart.
I was reminded of something I read a long time ago, so long ago I forget where. A repentant prisoner who had preyed for release was 'whispered' back, 'what prison?'.

In the mystic traditions of many religions it is proffered that the 'Kingdom of heaven' is a state rather than a place, a facet of consciousness and it is this 'consiousness' that is our likeness to God rather than physical appearance. I beleive as that prisoner came to beleive that this was the mening which had been revealed, that walls and bars did not seperate him from Spriit. One thing is clear from this thread, this illness does not seperate us from Spirit either.

 

[Holmsey]

Crows, by the way, were badly hit here by west nile virus in the last few years -- their population here is only now really recovering, and while that doesn't mean much of anything in terms of connection or relation to me specifically, it makes me that much happier to hear them in the evening, stronger than they were a year ago.

Happy near year.

Life always finds a way. I shy away from the word God because it means so many different things to so many people. I've come to reffer instead to what I understand as 'the underlying intent', life, big life (we as individuals are small life), is clearly part of that intent, what the final intent is, the destination, I doubt we're capable of comprehending. It was once put to me that this intent, this Universal flow, wasn't going to wait while I decided whether or not to plunge myself in but that the invite was clearly there. I've never given that as much thought as since the onset of this illness. So many thoughts come to me as I read this thread.

 

[Holmsey]

Jody

Thanks for those quotes.

They don't seem to be saying that there is no Hell. Instead, they appear to be speaking of the great mercy wrought by Jesus.

A lot more recently, Cardinal Cormac Murphy OConnor spoke of Catholic teaching.



http://www.romancatholicism.org/cormac-apokatastasis.htm

I came to the rational beleif many years ago that there could not exist a 'hell', certainly not one which involved constant eternal torture - no rage nor outrage can stand in the face of love. Such things are not of love, they are of fear.

Having decided such you find yourself looking for the origins of such a myth and certainly we can see where the threat of hell has empowered the few over the many throughout history. Beyond that we see numerous pagan hells which lay such a foundation, many of our modern religious rights have their basis in older religions, easier to have the new religion accepted that way. Christmas, or as it was, the winter solstice, Easter or as it was the spring equinox. Even Christianity takes its name from that given to Jesus, the much older term - Christos or Enlightened one another derivative of which is Crishna.

Of hell I would say this, what peace could you find in heaven to know that many of your loved ones resided in such a place. I would also ask, for how long could you yourself torture let's say Hitler as punishment for his crimes, a week, two, how long before the energy goes, before you think enough, if we have this much mercy why would we attribute less to a perfected being?

Fire by its nature consumes its own heart, know that we can do nothing to another without first that we do it to ourself. (Whispers)

 

[Holmsey]

Much of what Christ said actually concerned Jewish politics. Many of the parables we take as being moral lessons were actually attacks on certain Jewish attitudes in the time. The Bible was very selectively pieced together, and then translated so as to lose most of the implied meanings and context.

This can't be overstated, Jesus was a Jew, he didn't start Christianity. The council of Nicea saw the first Cannon of the bible, Constantine, the Roman emperor of the day decided for political reasons to align his empire to one religion and chose Christianity for what looks like solely political reasons, i.e. its popularity was on the rise. Those present then vied for inclusion of their own beleifs sighting many documents of the day, again politics and even foul play are indicated in which parties triumphed. Christian mysticism faired particularly badly, as has been shown by the Nag Hamadi codex, Dead sea scrolls and the like.
The New Testament is a treasure, but we should always remember that it was first pulled together in 325AD, and then changed over the centuries, usually for political reasons. it included what men thought it should include, much of what was included can be corroberated in other non Bible documents, much cannot. What was included has been both translated and in many cases interpreted, again by men. There is no, Gospel according to Jesus, so his words are as recounted by other men. If you have a King James version (1611), then again that was translated and 'formalised' according to the instructions of King James, who wanted to make sure everyone understood he was still King of his kingdom, on this earth.

For these reasons we need to be very carefull when we say something is the word of..., or something is infalliable, men certainly are not.

What's the answer? For me it's to take it into my heart and test it there, wisom doesn't belong to anyone, who said it matters little compared to what was said, that so much of such quality has been attributed to Jesus tells us he was indeed exceptional.

 

[Jody]

Nicely written posts, Holmsey.

You are saying alot that I would have found exhausting to articulate here. Thanks.

 

[Lily]

Nicely written posts, Holmsey.

You are saying alot that I would have found exhausting to articulate here. Thanks.

I quite agree. Thank you, Holmsley.